tientos again...

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tientos again...

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Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

tientos again...

Thanks everyone, the suggestions help so much...

Here is a slower version of the tientos...is this better? I like it slower, like this, sounds better to me, thanks to your suggestions!!

(THE LINK IS BELOW)

Merle

P>S> ( I recorded this just a few minutes ago, so it's an 'on the fly')~ ;>)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 1:19:16

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 13 2003 1:44:46

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 1:44:05

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Well, I see the above link did not work, so maybe this one will. I slowed down this tientos, so tell me if that make a difference.

http://members.aol.com:/mmusicdog7/private/tientos2.MP3

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 15:51:21

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle,

I didn't hear your previous version, but this one sounds pretty good. The tempo is about right, but no faster. Try stretching out the 5 stroke rasg a bit and emphasize the final upstroke of the indice. This gives the 5 stroke rasg it's "personality". Keep it up!

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 18:49:38

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to eslastra)

Thanks Eddie, for that review! With just a couple of suggestions from other members from last night, and now your suggestions, I'm more sure of how I should be playing.

I'll tell you, it's worth my wieght in gold to get the feedback from you experienced pros. Being able to have others listen to your playing does wonders!!

Thanks again,

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 19:10:09

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle,
You're gonna hate me for this....I like the faster version much better!
I've never heard Tientos as slow as that....especially in a solo.
Ah!...the diversity of advice...

LOL!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 20:03:10

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Ron.M)

Sheesh, there's no pleasing you guys, is there? Go faster, go slower, just right, stop playing, go wash dogs...? Where does it end?? ;>)

But, seriously, the tempo from last night is about what Juan Martin plays it at in his "El Arte..." book, however, I do like tientos to be a little slower like this one.

Another source that I have states that the tempo should be at 80 bpm, but man, a snail could dance to that!! That is way to slow for my taste (as a solo player).

I guess that if I'm at least in some sort of compas, then I will just play it as the moment suggests...

Thanks, RonM for listening and helping me...

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 20:22:46

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle,
Wash dogs slow in this establishment and you get fired, ya hear?
None of this scruba, scruba, scrub.......scrub scrub......scrub scrub.
I need "scruba-scruba, scrub , & scruba-scruba, scrub & ......"
....like you enjoy working here!...
We got people calling every day just to see if there is a vacancy...got it?

It may just be me Merle, but Tientos, like Siguiriyas sometimes sounds slower than it actually is, because of stretching of the compás and the "lush" thumb work.
Put on an actual performance of any Tientos you have on CD and time it in bpm.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 21:09:13

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Ron.M)

WOW!! That is crazy!!

I just put on Paco Pena's Azahara and listened to his tientos, 'Puerto Aguila'...

Well, what an EYE OPENER that was!! I put the metrome to it and (from what I can tell) is around 88 bpm!!! That is wierd! Tientos is slow! It's just that I was not realizing the 'duende' of tientos...

(wow, this is GOOD...)

THANK'S EVERYONE!! I just learned a valuable lesson...Your suggestions are the greatest contribution to me, and will keep me from applying for la posición de lavar de perro! ;>)

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 0:05:58

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

one more thing...I only wash Chihuahuas and St. Bernards!

all the other dogs inbetween can lick ....

(never mind) ;>)

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 0:25:14

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle,
I reduced my Tientos to 464KB and still couldn't upload it here. I kept getting an error message. I uploaded a larger file to Flamenco Hangover and it uploaded. Check it out over there.
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 1:09:27

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle;

Shucks! I suggested 90 bpm - now I will be accused of playing too fast!

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 1:20:09

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Phil)

Phil, that is beautiful! It has meaning in the music...

Mine must sound so...stale...!! I see how that palo should sound, serious, stately, majestic, sensual!! WOW! That is sweet, big time!

THANK YOU! That is a wonderful lesson....that was good...

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 1:56:36

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Tom, that simply amazes me, how SLOW tientos is!

I really love how, that maybe, the toque can be played at the tempo you learn from others, but, yet, there is something mysterious missing!

I just learned so much information this weekend regarding tientos, man....

Thanks for all your input, believe me, I REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT~ !

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:03:51

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Wow, Merle, I didn't expect that kind of reaction. I flubbed in a couple of places and that falseta is kind of choppy. I need to work on it to get it smoother. It's amazing how different something sounds when you hear it recorded as opposed to when you're playing it. I need to set up a web page so I can post a longer version. If your interested, I have it tabbed out in Guitar Pro.
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:11:31

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Phil)

Phil, I would not have wrote that if I did not mean it! That is a beautiful tientos...it has meaning!!

I don't have Guitar Pro, but the notes don't really mean that much to me, it's the duende (FEELING) that you put behind that playing that means so much to me, and hearing that is so much more meaningful to learning flamenco.

Well, back to the drawing board!! (thanks to you)!! ;>)

Merle

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:19:53

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Merle,

My suggestion to practice at the slower tempo was from the standpoint of a student. All my teachers have said that if I can't play with clarity at a slower tempo, it's not going to happen at a faster tempo. I do think 80bpm for tientos is about right for learning speed, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pros are going even up to 120bpm. So strive for somewhere in between. I've accompanied escobilla sections of tientos up to 150bpm, so you have lots of space to play with

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:36:24

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Phil)

Phil;

Good job and you do have the feeling! Now if you want to be like many of todays pros, you will take two years to play this in the studio, punch out and punch in, and then have what you want!

For those that have nothing else to do but play flamenco guitar, that is a blessing. I have a few other things to do like support a family in Silicon Valley, where I know of only one man who can live off of flamenco - Mariano Cordoba.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:39:54

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Phil,

I recognized a good old PdL falseta in there. Nice playing and good tempo.

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2003 2:44:56

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Merle)

Eddie,
Which PdL album is that from? I guess my teacher is a PdL fan as he's taught me other falsetas that I recognize as PdL's or variations of them.
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2003 0:16:42

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: tientos again... (in reply to Phil)

Phil,

I love that old PdL stuff, I can recognize it in my sleep

The 2nd falseta you played is off of 'Llanto a Cadiz' from the 'La Fabulosa Guitarra' album. If not note for note, it's pretty darn close. BTW, 'La Fabulosa' and 'Almoraima' are my all time PdL albums.

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2003 0:28:52