Following palmas

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Following palmas

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tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

Following palmas

Hello,

I have listened to some flamenco songs with intention to follow the compas but sometimes it's very difficult to distinguish the compas from the palmas as the accents aren't very obvious(especially in bulerias)
Is there any good methods to learn to hear the first beat of the compas in the palmas? Especially if one gets lost in the counting. I am especially referring to 12 beat compas... Thanks

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 15:14:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=68116&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 15:23:16

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to Ricardo)

I'm sorry but I don't know how to put that into practice to find the 1st beat of the compas in palmas

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 18:15:22

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

Palmas

Toque

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 18:58:54

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to orsonw)

awesome videos, thanks alot.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 19:30:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

I'm sorry but I don't know how to put that into practice to find the 1st beat of the compas in palmas

Did you read the quote in the box??
The first clap of loop is count 3. Or 9, palmas like this are
symmetrical 6's. The loudest claps are 1,3,7,9. The contra claps
are between 1 and 2, 7 and 8.
3 4 5 6 7&8 9 10 11 12 1&2 3 4 5 6 .... Etc

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2012 23:45:47

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to Ricardo)

OK thanks ricardo, does that mean whenever I hear palmas in sixes it starts either on 3 or 9? Indeed 6 beat palmas are what can be heard alot especially in bulerias. I suppose in the video above about the palmas he's also clapping in sixes(just leaving a pause on the 6th beat)?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 10:19:00

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

just leaving a pause on the 6th beat)?

There's no such a thing as you named 'a pause"! This gap is filled by the foot hiting the ground.

Same things for the tangos palmas. But you should know this coz you have already mastered it

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 13:09:08

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

Same things for the tangos palmas. But you should know this coz you have already mastered it

I wish

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 13:33:53

Mordorito

Posts: 50
Joined: Aug. 11 2012
From: Delaware, USA

RE: Following palmas (in reply to orsonw)

Who is this in the toque videos?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 17:04:31

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

Who is this in the toque videos?

I wish he would slow down what he is doing..I love that tapado...

It's kind of hard to follow him playing it that fast and on top of that I can't understand Spanish..

I recently learned a buleria tapado, thanks to one of the foro members who sent me something via mail

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 17:08:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

OK thanks ricardo, does that mean whenever I hear palmas in sixes it starts either on 3 or 9?

Again if you read I said it was just the way the loop was cut. I suspect whoever cut it didn't really care or know that this thing would end up confusing learners as the idea was just to have a loop to practice against for students that already have compas and are sick of metronome work.

Of course palmas start when doing them live, on 1 or 7 depending. In other words you start AFTER the down beat. Foot can be used as mentioned above for the down beat and other beats too.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 17:30:17

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to Ricardo)

OK thanks Ricardo, can you tell me, is the downbeat always 1 and 6 in 12 beat compas or for example 12 and 6 in bulerias and 1 and 6 in solea? And the downbeat for 4 beat compas is 1 I suppose?

Thanks everybody for helping me understand essential info a bit better. I really appreciate your help.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 21:36:06

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

I'm totally lost but I guess that is because I try and feel the accents, rather than count them.

Definitely going to put palmas on the Boot Camp agenda.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 21:42:50

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Following palmas (in reply to Mordorito)

quote:

Who is this in the toque videos?

José Luis Rodríguez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2012 22:02:41

Mordorito

Posts: 50
Joined: Aug. 11 2012
From: Delaware, USA

RE: Following palmas (in reply to orsonw)

Thanks, orsonw. I checked out some of his other videos and he's got a lot of great stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

José Luis Rodríguez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2012 1:11:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

OK thanks Ricardo, can you tell me, is the downbeat always 1 and 6 in 12 beat compas or for example 12 and 6 in bulerias and 1 and 6 in solea? And the downbeat for 4 beat compas is 1 I suppose?

Thanks everybody for helping me understand essential info a bit better. I really appreciate your help.

Again, it's always 12 or 6 UNLESS THE TEMPO IS VERY SLOW for solea. IN which case instead of 2 main down beats per compas of 12 you actually take the feeling of 4 downbeats ....as I stated earlier they are 1,4,7,10. Otherwise (meaning in all other cases were the tempo is up past 120 bpm or so) count 1 can be a starting point but always FELT like a pick up note after the down beat.

Tangos 1 is always taken as down beat even though you also start palmas and falsetas and such in a similar way...pick up notes after down beat. Also stated earlier some dancers count tangos in 8, in which case you have 2 down beats per cycle, 1 and 5.

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2012 13:31:27

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Following palmas (in reply to Ricardo)

OK thanks, is there a reason why the downbeat is on the last beat instead of the first?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2012 16:04:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Following palmas (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

OK thanks, is there a reason why the downbeat is on the last beat instead of the first?

Yes. Because of the slow tempo concept of solea counting phrases from 1 to 10 became the basis for teaching the rhythm. THey don't even count to 12. They think of the musical phrase that happens over beats 1-10 as important and the last two beats as the "space" between cycles. In spanish, if compas is ever counted, it is counted uno dos tres, quatro cinco seis siete ocho nueve dies, un dos, uno dos tres, etc. So even though that makes no music notation logic, it is the traditional method for dealing with the compas. When tempo increases, what were once accents of one song form become heavy beats of the faster version. THe counting simply ties the different 12 count forms together into one group or family of songs, despite the obvious differences of FEELING that occur when tempos are significantly different.

When playing for dance we deal with this issue head on as we must follow a dancer's lead regarding tempo as they take us from one slow tempo and form and feeling, building it up to pass into another with an unbroken thread. It can be done gradually or rapidly but the point is that every musician has to change their internal feeling at some point in order to feel comfortable with the new faster song form. AT the point of transition, a common thing is to notice the foot taps become different. THis event need not occur at the same time for every performer because the counting of the cycle is unbroken, but normally if the guitar changes the feeling everyone catches that and goes with it.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2012 17:09:04