Foot tapping while playing

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

Foot tapping while playing

Hi,

what kind of foot tapping do you guys do while playing guitar?

For example do you tap only on the accents or do you do tap on every beat or do you tap only in the beginning? I suppose it's different depending on the flamenco style.
I am especially thinking about solea/bulerias and tangos.

thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 20:38:01

Issam

Posts: 50
Joined: Sep. 3 2010

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 14 2014 19:35:46

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 21:00:19

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

It depends on the speed and the context. When i study a new falseta at a slow speed i tap all the beats (or even half beats) and later on (when it's in my system) i go with the flow. The basic idea is not to get lost so at slow speed i might ad some extra taps for orientation and on high speed i go with the flow of the melody.

In TANGOS that's 1 and 3

In BULERIAS you have various options.

* Paco de Lucia quite often favors <1,2-4,5-7,8-10,11-> which feels like tapping "in between" the main beat: you can give an extra accent were they meet (8 and 10)
* De moraos probably count everything in groups of 2: <12-2-4/6-8-10> You can also use this pulse when playing half compas, adding chains of 3 taps in a raw. If the melody ends on 1th tap that's 6, if it ends on last tap it is 10.
*personally i switch between<12-3-6-8-10>, <12-2-4-6-8-10> and<12-3-6-9>, whatever fits best.

In SOLEARES i probably tap all beats but with various accents depending on the melody.

In SOLEA POR BULERIAS i count the main accents <12-3-6-8-10> and some times <1,2-4--/7-8-10-->(which also occurs in soleares).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 21:11:32

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to Erik van Goch)

It really is difficult for me(a flamenco newb) to pay attention to the beats and I really need some practice... That's why I really need at least a foot to keep me up with the beats.
What would be a good method to learn to play with compas properly? Practice tips would be welcome...
I guess one basic method would be to learn some basic flamenco songs(starting with soleares for example) and play them with flamenco compas(such as flamenco master) many times and later on move to foot tapping.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 21:51:53

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

Use a metronome and count all the beats out loud as you play them.

I try to do this - it isn't easy for us beginner types but it does help with getting the timing right. Of course, you can only reasonably do this if it isn't hugely fast - but if you can't do it correctly slowly then you can't do it correctly quickly.

_____________________________

The universe is indeed expanding - to get away from this planet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 23:03:44

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

Everybody has his/her own truth. My truth is not to study/play complete pieces but to restrict to study some simple compas variations (variations on the basic chords) and some simple falsetas (the melodies) first.

In general i study them 1 by 1, bid by bid, studying a couple of notes at the time. I usually start figuring out/practice the notes and the technique concentrating on the right movement and relaxation first. Best is to link that to interpretation/expression, but in the beginning you probably will struggle to handle your fingers in the first place and probably don't (always) know what to express as well.

Next step (after taming your fingers and thoughts) is to try to play it in rhythm were tapping is involved. I guess the first couple of years i used to tap every beat and sometimes also the in between beats (using both feet). I'm still talking studying a couple of notes at the time here, obviously with an eye on the bigger picture. So after studying the right interpretation/moves/relaxation i try to fit them within the rhythm. The most effective way to drill rhythm is to make yourself small patterns of notes that fit within a 2,3 or 4 beat system. That pattern preferably has a silent part around the last tap as well in which you can re-load (both technically and mentally) So i don't stick to a compas yet but the timing of each and every note around the taps should be identical with the (later)compas. If the part starts of beat you can use the first tap as re-loading moment, for instance

* to the * and to the *
* - the * and to the *

After drilling several of those patterns i glue them together to a (partial) compas. That's how i practice and drill new (and old) material>>>as soon as i notice an irregularity of any kind i restudy the interpretation, the moves or the rhythmic pattern.

After drilling various falsetas/compas variations (both in small patterns and in a continuing compas) the next step is to combine 2 of them and to synchronize there rhythm. In the beginning many tend to speed up parts that are more easy and to slow down parts that are more difficult....when playing in compas you select a speed that fits the situation and in case of combining melodies you have to slow down everything to a tempo were you can handle every part).

The first couple of years i didn't bother working like this at all but run in so much trouble on all fronts that i decided to take lessons after all (by the very best). There i had to start all over again and learned to give every aspect of playing my fullest attention. This is only possible if you study a couple of notes at the time, very slowly and focusing on different aspects during the process. Obviously you can also develop and enjoy yourself without such a rigid approach but probably with slower/lesser results (unless your'e a natural) ;-)

drawback is that when you fail the constant corrections i received over the years drilling bad habits is more likely than developing future proof skills. Best thing is to find yourself a good teacher (although many of them probably suffer some bad habits as well, including myself) :-)

so my best advise is fallow your heart and have fun.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2012 23:20:23

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

It really is difficult for me(a flamenco newb) to pay attention to the beats and I really need some practice... That's why I really need at least a foot to keep me up with the beats.
What would be a good method to learn to play with compas properly? Practice tips would be welcome...
I guess one basic method would be to learn some basic flamenco songs(starting with soleares for example) and play them with flamenco compas(such as flamenco master) many times and later on move to foot tapping.

there are lots of things you can do, and lots of people will have different recommendations, often they will be telling you what has worked for them, so it will be worth a try, even if it doesn't work so well for you

there are a lot of vids on youtube, as well as stuff available to buy, so if you want to know what tapping pattern you should be doing for what palo, watch a whole bunch and see what the guitarist does

play along with a metronome and tap your foot with the beats or accents or pulse or whatever patterns you pick up

go back to the videos and watch and listen to the palmas, and learn those patterns too, then you can practise palmas along with cd's, mp3's etc. This will really help your timing and sense of compas

all these things are often recommended by teachers (ie. they are not any kind of original ideas of my own!)

i learnt to tap the 1,2, 4,5, 7,8, 10,11 pattern for bulerias mentioned above almost by accident. I thought it would be impossible for me to learn to tap this with my foot and play at the same time. I got a programmable metronome for general use (turns out i hardly use it anymore, but it was good for this story!), i programmed it to that pattern, and practised bulerias along to it. Before long i was tapping my foot along with the metronome without hardly realising it.

if you don't have a programmable metronome and you want to experiment like this, you can get a normal tick, tick metronome and record yourself playing palmas along to it, the 1,2 4,5 pattern, or whatever. You get to practise the palmas to a metronome, and then you have a rhythm track to practise playing guitar to!

This also is something recommended to me by several teachers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 11:51:21

dararith

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

It depends on the speed and the context. When i study a new falseta at a slow speed i tap all the beats (or even half beats) and later on (when it's in my system) i go with the flow. The basic idea is not to get lost so at slow speed i might ad some extra taps for orientation and on high speed i go with the flow of the melody.

I do exactly what Erik does here. It works for me.

quote:

It really is difficult for me(a flamenco newb) to pay attention to the beats and I really need some practice... That's why I really need at least a foot to keep me up with the beats.
What would be a good method to learn to play with compas properly? Practice tips would be welcome...
I guess one basic method would be to learn some basic flamenco songs(starting with soleares for example) and play them with flamenco compas(such as flamenco master) many times and later on move to foot tapping.

What skyrocketed my learning was just to listen to the music WITHOUT even touching the guitar. When I drive to work, I just turn up my music, and tap my foot to the beats...and when I'm at home, I do palmas. When I'm comfortable just tapping my foot or doing palmas, I then pick up my guitar and try to play basic compas OVER the music playing in the back. Heh, it makes me feel like I'm a student playing with a master! I like doing it this way since I can hear basic compas even when the music is doing crazy falsetas...but I guess it depends on what you listen to...I primarily listen to cante since there's a lot of compas that goes on, and short falsetas in between, so playing over this is easier and fun for me to do than guitar solos. This also has the hidden effect of intuitively getting a feel for cante accompaniment since you can hear how/when the guitar changes chords with the singer WHILE keeping the compas driving.

In general, foot tapping is supposed to help you keep compas. For me, I like regular interval beats (12-2-4-6-8-10 for bulerias, or all the beats in solea) because it helps me physically measure out the time. Sometimes I don't tap my foot since I just groove with the music physically (bob my head to the beat, move my body -- much like some of the Morao family). Whether it's foot tapping, or moving your head, or even blinking your eyes to the beat...whatever helps you feel out the compas is important, because the guitarist gotta hold compas rock solid...you may come up with your own unorthodox method.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 13:05:19

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

Is there a method to see which beat is played at what time when watching performance like this for example? Is there a "rule" when the golpe is done for example?:

I am having hard time imagining compas even with this traditional kind of playing...

I also wonder when I use flamenco master that why the accents are different in bulerias(one of them in FM) and alegrias when compared to soleares, even when they should have accents on the same beats?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 14:02:18

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to dararith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dararith

What skyrocketed my learning was just to listen to the music WITHOUT even touching the guitar. When I drive to work, I just turn up my music, and tap my foot to the beats...

:-) I worked out a falseta from Paco de Lucia last night and today i couldn't get it out of my system. The melody popped up in my head every second my daily work allowed it, re-playing it in my head note by note, visualizing the fingering or trying out various interpretations. For the right interpretation i used to imagine how a singer would tread it (you basically want to sound like a singer) but nowadays i imagine how a dancer would make it shine, having only rhythm, dynamics and a limited amount of sound variations. Obviously i listened/watched solo guitar, singing and dancing 1000-ts of hours during the past 40 years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 14:27:16

dararith

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

Is there a method to see which beat is played at what time when watching performance like this for example? Is there a "rule" when the golpe is done for example?:

I am having hard time imagining compas even with this traditional kind of playing...

I also wonder when I use flamenco master that why the accents are different in bulerias(one of them in FM) and alegrias when compared to soleares, even when they should have accents on the same beats?

HOW DARE YOU?! YOU JUST OPENED UP A CAN OF WORMS!!!

I kid. You just caught something very important. I had a hard time wrestling with this myself. There's a lot of stretching of the compas that's done with Sabica's solo playing (among many other guitarists). That's one of the main differences between accompaniment and solo. Accompaniment (especially dance accompaniment) is often played in compas. Seguiriya and Solea have compas that can be stretched (Seguiriya stretches to the extreme, especially with cante accompaniment, and Solea have some rubatos in there as well)... ... my guess is that the stretch is to emphasize the aire that the artist is trying to achieve. In Seguiriya, the compas stretches just seem to go in sync with the singing, since expression/feeling is more dominant than to simply play on time.

For other flamenco rhythms, I don't see/hear a lot of compas stretching...but correct me if I'm wrong. Like I always hear Bulerias played in correct time, but they may not even accent the expected beats, just to give it that fun groove -- truly playing with and against the beat and always in rhythm. The palmas to this is always dead-on accurate.

Here's another thread that talks about compas stretching that you may find useful.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=132700&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=stretching%2Ccompas&tmode=&smode=&s=#133035

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 15:45:18

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

Is there a method to see which beat is played at what time when watching performance like this for example? Is there a "rule" when the golpe is done for example?:

just in the first few seconds he's tapping on the accents

sounds like you need some beginner's instructional video, or better still a real live teacher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 15:56:04

dararith

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

:-) I worked out a falseta from Paco de Lucia last night and today i couldn't get it out of my system. The melody popped up in my head every second my daily work allowed it, re-playing it in my head note by note, visualizing the fingering or trying out various interpretations. For the right interpretation i used to imagine how a singer would tread it (you basically want to sound like a singer) but nowadays i imagine how a dancer would make it shine, having only rhythm, dynamics and a limited amount of sound variations. Obviously i listened/watched solo guitar, singing and dancing 1000-ts of hours during the past 40 years.

Hahaha...that's what happens when you listen to flamenco all day, everyday. You just took it another level and imagined a singer/dancer! Now I just thought of something I never really thought of before. How can one play a falseta and be more appropriate for a singer vs a dancer? That just change things around, doesn't it? To have a falseta that's really just a base and nothing more. Then you can have the flexibility to change that 'base' falseta and make it more rhythmic or lyrical by understanding the chord and scale sequencing and getting your right hand to adjust to do what you want. Wow. Now I have to go and learn some more music theory to do this (since I suck at music theory)!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 16:00:02

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to dararith)

Thanks.

I also find this video to be very helpful:

It kind of makes me think of how does one go about accents when writing own falsetas... I suppose one has to find a balance of how much accents one is going to play more noticeably. I mean if one strums harder or changes chords on every accent it would be boring wouldn't it. These kind of videos really help to understand the compas better. Or just in general listening to people playing with clear compas makes it alot easier to digest.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 16:02:07

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

I have noticed the counting that camaron often does:

can someone explain what beats is he(and paco) counting? Such steady counting seems appealing

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:02:40

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

can someone explain what beats is he(and paco) counting?

these guys never count! NEVER! They feel.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:08:53

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

what kind of foot tapping do you guys do while playing guitar?

I stopped doing foot tapping while playing mainly because in relatively complicated bulerias it gets kind of confusing...I would tap async anyways..So I reduced it to feeling the compas instead of tapping. Its also less annoying to the neighbors.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:10:25

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to mezzo)

Sure thing. But I suppose the taps of the camarons hands and pacos feet fall on some beats/accents?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:11:02

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

They're doing the same thing. Paco' foot tap is the transposition of Camaron' hand clap.
clap_clap_foot-clap_clap_foot...
for the hand, the foot falls in beat 3, 6, 9, 12.
for the guitar the silence falls in 3, 6, 9, 12 (see post above)

But this has nothing to do with the 12 beat cycle! Forget about it.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:24:13

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to mezzo)

OK thanks, I suppose it's a "pro thing" then? and if it's not too complicated to explain, what is it about?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 18:33:12

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

Well it's basically about medio compas.
If you use the search function, it's a subject well covered here.

Basic 12 beat cycle = 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
medio compas cycle (6's) = 6 1 2 3 4 5 (x2)
3's group cycle = 3 1 2 (x4)

There's nothing about pro thing in this. It's a way to feel the compas por buleria that differ from the 12 beats cycle.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 19:20:11

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to mezzo)

Is it basically counting the accents?

EDIT:OK thanks. Is it easier method to feel the rythm or does it depend?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 19:23:17

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

yes!! so go ahead

search the downbeat.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 19:24:00

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to mezzo)

It certainly is more straightforward and less confusing when listening to something or playing and counting it like that... Is it only good for bulerias or does it work with solea and alegrias, too?

I am certainly having trouble counting to twelve and noticing/feeling the accents.

Basically keeping the rhythm for bulerias by tapping the "pause" in this videos palmas is a much easier way for me at least to count. But what's the difference between this and 12 beat counting when one is actually playing? Or is there times when one is better off counting to 12?

Or if counting only every second beat, does it work well too?
I really am too newb to play along and tap to the usual 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 accents

thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 19:31:24

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

Is it only good for bulerias or does it work with solea and alegrias, too?

No it's only for bulerias.

quote:

But what's the difference between this and 12 beat counting when one is actually playing? Or is there times when one is better off counting to 12?

There's no rules. I personnaly prefer clap in 6's/3's. But if one prefers or fell it better with the 12 count, I don't see any prob in it.
Compas is compas. These differents cycle are just distinct manner to emphatise it. The compas cycle do not change. Count it in 3, 6 or 12, it will always remain the same one.

quote:

Or if counting only every second beat, does it work well too?

Man, don't confuse yourself too much.
My advice is focus on clapping your hands instead of tapping your foot. I personnaly never paid much attention to my foot while playing.
BUT what you really need to do are palmas exercices. So clap the compas along tracks with proper (hand, foot) patterns. It will help you alot.

Stay with the 6's feel por bulerias for a while. TRy to clap along in this way every cante por buleria you listen to.

EDIT:
just want to clarify something coz eventually you're talking about this and I answering about that.
So I entered in this topic when you asked about Camaron clapping his hands. Aka about PALMAS. All my replies and explanations are palmas focused and of course, they're not centered in foot tap while playing guitar.

Clappin hands (palmas) is a thing. Foot tap with guitar is another one. Orange and Apple so to speak.

I'm sure you realise that when you clap your hands you cannot play the guitar ...

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2012 20:32:10

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to mezzo)

Thanks. Even when you refer to palmas, I suppose tapping the foot like in numbers *1,2*4,5*7,8*10,11 or 12**3**6**9** (basically medio palmas but presented in twelve)
when playing bulerias helps to keep the rhythm and is acceptable method in comparison to counting to twelve and playing along it? I just wonder is there a noticeable difference to it as the beats on the last six beats are altered in this method of counting.

If I would tap every accent in the usual bulerias compas I would have to pay so much attention to it that I couldn't play properly.

Here's a medio compas I suppose:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2012 9:10:53

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

I have noticed the counting that camaron often does:

can someone explain what beats is he(and paco) counting? Such steady counting seems appealing

Camaron varies clapping all the time (like he should) so i guess you mean the part around 3:25...............There paco taps his usual <(12)**(3)**(6)**(9)**>

The taps (*) equals the pulse <(12)**-**-**-**> or in counting .....1/2....4/5....7/8.....10/11

This is only an additional pulse, inside you simultaneously feel the natural pulse 12-3-6-8-10. In combination the first 2 pairs of feet taps very much feel like filling up the gaps between the main accents: 12**3**

The second half of the compas is a little more complicated since the taps on 7/8 and 10/11 partly cross/overlap the main accents 6, 8 and 10. To emphasise that entanglement you can give a little more accent on tap 8 and 10 if you want.

7....... 8.....10.....11
soft/hard - hard/soft

so the taps are like: <(12)soft/soft(3)soft/soft(6)soft/hard(9)hard/soft>

Paco don't seem to give extra accents.

This camaron video is not the best one to study since the image and the sound not always synchronize....so the taps you see don't always match with the music you hear (this happens quite a lot on youtube).

Here is one of my favorites which unfortunately has some image/sound problems as well but of an other order.......If you watch it via youtube you can lower the speed to 1/4!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2012 16:41:21

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Foot tapping while playing (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

It certainly is more straightforward and less confusing when listening to something or playing and counting it like that... Is it only good for bulerias or does it work with solea and alegrias, too?

I am certainly having trouble counting to twelve and noticing/feeling the accents.

Basically keeping the rhythm for bulerias by tapping the "pause" in this videos palmas is a much easier way for me at least to count. But what's the difference between this and 12 beat counting when one is actually playing? Or is there times when one is better off counting to 12?

Or if counting only every second beat, does it work well too?
I really am too newb to play along and tap to the usual 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 accents

thanks

This is a much better video. This "tapping the pauze" as you name it (which indeed describes the feeling) is the pulse Paco de Lucia usually taps with his foot. But like i said that is only an additional pulse. Inside Paco is still feeling the main beats 12--3--6-8-10 and that is the pulse he transposes to his fingers (or an alternative pulse that fits the music).

So you must be able to execute both pulses simultaneously: (12)** ** ** ** with foot taps and 12-3-6-8-10 in your mind/fingers

The combination 12**3** is not a real problem, more difficult is the combination.

6........8.....10
...tap,tap---tap,tap

try to clap the pulse 6-8-10 wile tapping 7/8 10/11 with your foot. Note that

6.....is in front of the two beats
8.....is on second foot tap
10...is on first foot tap

It might help to practice (6) soft/hard - hard/soft were "hard" equals combined clapping/tapping points.

It took me quite a wile before i could do that.

I named alternative pulses (like counting every second beat (as you suggested) or counting every 3th beat) on top of this page :-)

As far as i can think of this paired pulses (in general) only apply for bulerias but various forms like soleares and alegrias can include bulerias elements so i quess they might appear every now and then.

The main clapping pulse in soleares and alegrias is

1and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10 and 11 and 12
c.......c........c.....................................c........c...................c.....................c (soleares)
x--c--c------c------------------------------c------c----------------c----------------c (soleares/alegrias)
x...c..c........c.....................................c........c.........c....c...c..........(c).......c
x...c..c........c.....................................c...c....c........c....c....c..........(c).......c
x.......2........3.................................and the 8......and the10........11......12

Again on top of feeling main accents 3-6-8-10-12 which in this case makes it more easy to time like "to the 8'' which starts after feeling 6 inside!

There are parallel ideas in other styles.Tangos for instance combines foot tapping 1-3-/1-3-/1-3/ with hand clapping -234/-234 (often with a double clap on 2)

1....2.....3.....4
*...........*...... feet
......c.....c......c clapping
......c..c..c.....c

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2012 17:35:22