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RE: Soundport AFTER guitar made?
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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 RE: Soundport AFTER guitar made? (in reply to KMMI77)
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quote:
Lets just say that it didn't inspire me to do it to my good guitars.
Let's just say that there is a compelling factor, with added nuance, to sell guitars with sound ports. It's new, it's different, and people would like to try them out.
Bob Ruck has been a master of the option for many years and he is always at the forefront of anything that appeals to the buying masses. If he builds it, then other guitar makers figure that there must be a selling point to try for their own profit.
Is it a good selling point? Obviously it has not taken over the market with traditional built instruments. If it had, then that would be proof enough to argue its positive points.
And my own personal view is that a well built, finely tuned, guitar doesn't need a side port, as its feed back and movement, in its over-all sound range, will speak to the performer without added ports.
I use to play flamenco guitar for dancers and I never had an issue of not hearing my guitar over all the noise from dancing feet. The key to that was playing a guitar that was loud to begin with.
Many designs just aren't loud enough and perhaps this was a reason to try and gain better audio feed back. But we should remember that sound ports aren't going to give the "audience" any better volume without a needed sound system.
The guitars I played vibrated and shook enough to where I felt every chord change with the dancers. And the sound system took care of the rest. I think these new ports are a distraction, perhaps pleasant, but a distraction nonetheless, for reaping what may be a marketing anomaly, which brings a new facet into the economy of guitars.
But I'm not interested in bringing a different feed back to my ears but choose to keep a fine tuned voice built into a living organism that moves and shakes with my embrace.
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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Aug. 25 2012 16:14:08
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z6
Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011
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RE: Soundport AFTER guitar made? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Mr. Eliasson,
I found/find the thread full of fun. I have not seen the other 99 times where the subject was discussed on this forum. I have read many new ideas on it. (New to me, of course, but that's no sin.) Nobody, on either side, bullied anyone. I don't even know how that could occur on a forum
I see no prejudices outside of people who want extra holes and people who don't. (And all the people who don't don't care whether the people do do and the people who do don't care about the people who don't.) I would suggest that arguments about the number of holes in a piece of wood could not achieve such a lofty status as a 'prejudice'.
I have not detected any self-promotion (but I am a bit thick and might have missed that) outside of Mr. Blackshear's reference to his fine tuning but I find his comments too fascinating and gracious to worry about whether he's planting subliminal desires in my unconscious that will drive me to him, strings in hand.
I can't remember anyone claiming the guitars will lose value, but maybe they did. I postulated that that was a risk. Remember the original poster had made up his mind and wanted to hear from others who did the same... as an after-sale customization. The fact that there exists even one single person who does not like them suggests a downwards weighting in the market place. Ergo: One can always punch a hole, but unpunching is trickier. Deniz suggested that unpunching the hole was no problem. He's being disingenuous, of course. But still, no problem. If people want to argue black is white, it makes no difference. It's all just fun on a forum, no?
I butted in and put my three cents worth after Mr. Blackshear's remark for two reasons:
1. The internet is a place where people look for information. The sound-port love-in may have given a passer-by the impression that such a customization was an unreserved good thing. (Reread Deniz and Florian's views to confirm this, if you wish.) I didn't think there was enough balance in the the thread. Deniz and Florian and others are entitled to think and do what they want with their guitars, and I'm entitled to recognize self-delusion, (an ailment that plagues me also) and to worry that some kid might have a guitar, read the claims and then deface a perfectly functioning instrument. It all sounded like religion, or snake oil to me. So I wanted to have a little fun with it. I thought I came up with bonzer designs to compete with it but alas, impressed nobody but myself.
2. The positive claims were not suggesting a 'difference', it was all about gains/improvements. To me this was a clear postulation to the effect that all and any/every guitar would 'improve'. Nobody, when I entered the thread, was talking about differences; at
least from the 'yes' camp. I can stuff a chicken in my guitar and it will sound different. (And dammit, maybe I will.)
This is, to me, interesting, and important as, if this were in science, for example, the inventor would be in line for a nobel prize for a fundamental discovery. 'All and any guitars can be improved with the extra hole.'
This would indeed be a huge leap for luthiers. (And you would all be leaping together.)
You ask 'How many guitars with soundports have lost value?' When the more rational question is 'How many guitars without a soundport have lost value by not having one.' (Remember how easy it is to make the hole and difficult to unmake... I know there could be repairs but you'd be a magician to punch a hole in the beautiful Brazilian rosewood sides of mine then fix it so that I couldn't detect it. The merest nailmark can hurt value (relative to the same guitar without the mark). And bear in mind that it was pointed out (by me, incidentally) that makers who regularly built guitars with soundports would not necessarily see any loss in value, for obvious reasons.)
Your question, like Deniz's comments, is disingenuous.
For me, a guitar with a soundport has likely lost all of its value. While the guitar without a port still has value to me AND the people who like soundports. Extrapolate that to a general population of people in the market for a nylon-string guitar and even with a tendency toward soundport acceptance, the price risk is on the downside for ported guitars (unless built by luthiers specializing in.... blah... blah) You get the drift here?
You are correct. It's not serious. And accusing everyone who does not agree with you of bullying, babbling and promoting fixed ideas is not polite.
But I do hope that I get the chance to try one of your guitars one day, ported or not.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 25 2012 18:23:13
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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RE: Soundport AFTER guitar made? (in reply to z6)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: z6
Remember the original poster had made up his mind and wanted to hear from others who did the same... as an after-sale customization.
(Reread Deniz and Florian's views to confirm this, if you wish.) I didn't think there was enough balance in the the thread. Deniz and Florian and others are entitled to think and do what they want with their guitars, and I'm entitled to recognize self-delusion, (an ailment that plagues me also) and to worry that some kid might have a guitar, read the claims and then deface a perfectly functioning instrument. It all sounded like religion, or snake oil to me.
I actually haven't made up my mind when I posted, I wanted to seek out more opinions on the matter, of it being an after market customization.
Honestly, if I had another lesser guitar that I could test it on, I would.
I really like soundports now. It is definately not 'snake oil'. There's is a tangible difference between a guitar with a port and a non ported guitar. I wish I had a chance to play Florian's guitar when I met him to listen to it.
Thanks to everyone replying.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 26 2012 1:25:16
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Soundport AFTER guitar made? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
Last time this subject was up, I asked Mr. Blackshear how many guitars he had made soundports. He didnt answer, so I believe he has made ZERO. Judge yourself.
As many of the list's members know, I'm not into attacking someone's character. I have played sound ported guitars and I don't care for them. It's a personal preference and I don't condescend to, or try and put down players who like sound ports in their guitars.
A builder should build sound ports, if that is what he likes. And he should keep with what he feels is valuable to guitars. There is plenty of interest for both styles.
I hope that people will find a place to be agreeable about freedom of opinion, without taking personal offense. Life is too short.
I build about one guitar every two months, and most of them are classical guitars.
I grew up playing flamenco guitar but I have found a love for the classical guitar, and this is not going to change unless a player orders a flamenco. And this would be considered a special order to me.
I've shared certain techniques to those who would find them interesting but there is always going to be a difference of opinion about how to build a guitar, and arguments about this can be healthy, as long as they don't digress into personal insults.
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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Aug. 26 2012 13:54:32
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I just want a guitar that sounds goooood. Good. And i like the port because i like what it does. This is such a clear and non-pretentious statement that i will call anybody, who is able to not get or deliberately misinterprets that, a douchebag. 
