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siguiriya of Pastora
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: siguiriya of Pastora (in reply to jshelton5040)
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Hi John, Yes, the one by the Junta de Andalucía, right? (I think it's actually 13 CDs.) There's a ton of information on one of the disks: photos, interviews, all kinds of data and lengthy analyses written by some of Spain's top researchers. Nice effort and results, but a lot of the letras have the wrong words and the otherwise thorough texts skip over some crucial aspects of singer and guitarist. Not huge flaws, but worth mentioning because they contrast with the high quality of the rest of the production. It's actually kind of interesting to have seen the advent of these "obras completas." Certainly a thing of the past, for now anyway, given the current state of the economy. But back when there was money, they rounded up and remastered all of Chacón's recordings (except the cylinders and tracks with Perico del Lunar), all of Tomás Pavón's, all of Torre's and nearly all of Mairena's. So many remaining, and some of the more difficult ones are pretty recent: Never mind those Chacón cylinders or the rumored-to-exist-but-never-actually-located sixth recording of a levantino style recorded by Manuel Escacena on the Zonophone label , some of those gas-station cassette tapes from the 70s and 80s are rare gems today (Chocolate, Terremoto, Agujetas, La Perla...)
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Date Jul. 23 2012 18:27:22
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: siguiriya of Pastora (in reply to machopicasso)
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quote:
Curiously, why do you think she was having voice problems, as opposed to, say, just experimenting with another style? Is it normal for cantors to have voice problems? Well of course I don't know that, but like I said above: She sings low and careful like that on all eight of the recordings she made in 1933 with Antonio Moreno. It's really noticeable in the sevillana. If you listen to lots of her recordings, you'll find that she usually sings louder and with much more power in the higher notes. I don't know if she often had problems with her voice, but it's mentioned in a couple of interviews. quote:
I never bothered to read any of the notes just put the cd's on and listened to them while working in my shop. I'll have to dig that set out and listen to it again since it's been put away for several years. Oh yeah: If you put one of the disks in your computer or DVD player, there are over a hundred photos of her, in addition to interviews, artists' renditions, transcriptions... The CD recordings are arranged chronologically. I'm not overly fond of most of the early disks because the recording quality isn't as good and she was much younger. CDs 1 and 2 with Montoya sound better and there are some good cantes and interesting toques. CDs 3 to 7 (1913-1915) sound worse and feature Luis Molina, who I don't like as much. Currito de La Jeroma plays on CD 8 (1917) and from CD 9 (1927) onward I like the recordings a lot more. The guitarists are Ricardo, Montoya (CD 10, 1929), Manolo de Badajoz, Antonio Moreno and Melchor.
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Date Jul. 24 2012 14:49:41
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: siguiriya of Pastora (in reply to Ricardo)
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Thanks for the feedback, Ricardo! quote:
...it doesn't strike me at all as strange or "eerie". It's been transplanted into lots of cantes, so nothing surprising about it if you compare with modern recordings and other styles. A few days ago, a friend pointed out a bulería por soleá recorded by Barullo (Manuel Moneo's son). I haven't got the recording but I think it's the first track from his CD with Moraíto "Plazuela." The first two cantes start like bulería larga but drop down to that sharped second degree in the cambio. quote:
Right from tona/martinete/carcelera.... Yes, I get that impression, too. But carcelera is a different cante. Some used to say that carcelera was the same cante when singing about prison (cárcel=prison), but the Solers say that it's actually from ancient Andalusian folklore and there are very few recordings, one being by Tenazas de Morón. The melody is major key throughout. A closer match might be the siguiriya of Frasco El Colorao, but it also sounds like it comes from tonás/martinetes. Another connection might be in some of those siguiriyas cabales that are part major and part Phrygian. All of these styles appear to be really old. Also, the sharped second degree shows up in some versions of styles 2 and 3 of Curro Durse (also associated with Frasco El Colorao, like Manuel Molina 1). Less significant, though, IMO, because of the VII/III implication (G/C chords por medio, with B natural in the G chord) and B natural being just a hairsbreadth down from C. Interestingly, there are old references to Frasco El Colorao, Manuel Molina and Curro Durse being friends. quote:
There is an other interesting one Potito does really well (I will try to find it EDIT: on barrio alto track 5 at 1:29 the word "fatiga") where he does like a bluesy bend between a C# and a C, very deliberate micro tonal thing. Thanks for the reference, but now it's my turn to be unimpressed. Typical mixed bag of those derivative styles (deriving from Viejo de La Isla). The bluesy bend you mention is okay but commonplace to my ears. If you haven't heard it already, check out the microtonal descent in Pastora's version of the siguiriya of El Marrurro (http://www.canteytoque.es/sigclas.htm#marrurro). Similar descent in El Gloria's version, but Pastora flattens one of the words by a quarter tone. quote:
Also in his palo seco solea the last letra he tosses out that B natural. I always think of these as just spontaneous personal embellishments the guitar can TRY to grab or just play through....but perhaps they are not improvised but practiced and refined? Yes, I agree, especially when it's just a passing detail that goes by in a flash, as sung by Potito. In other styles, though, it seems rehearsed/refined as you say and worth changing the accompaniment IMO, if there's enough time and space.
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Date Jul. 25 2012 8:29:51
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