Ethics of using an artist's music in a video

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

Ethics of using an artist's music in...

Hey everyone,
I thought someone might be able to help me with this... I have a timelapse video of me working in the shop and Diego del Morao's "Orate" just fits perfectly over it. Would it be unethical to upload the video to YouTube with DdM's music in it? (Several people have already uploaded the song to YT)
Does anyone know how I could contact Diego to get permission?

TIA

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 2:21:57

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

If you need to contact Diego, and you cannot do that through his website (if he has one, not sure), then Conrad (our foro member) might be able to help.

However, even if all that takes place and you DO get Diego's permission, I am not sure as to whether that will guarantee that you don't get your audio silenced (on the video you uploaded) by some dumb YouTube robots.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 2:33:06

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to rombsix)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 7:04:10

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

If you're not profiting from it, then i dont see any issue.
All its really doing is promoting his music.
I dont see anything wrong with that.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 7:08:19

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Are you playing his material or is he? If you play his composition, no problem but nice to give him credit. If using a recording of his playing, a different issue requiring his permission.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 11:02:37

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

you should be careful with this Andy as they're real mean
I had lots of problem with them before.

When YouTube takes down your video, they give you one "strike." Three strikes, and you're out of YouTube, which will close your account.

check YouTube Policies:
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=92486

the extract is "Respect copyright. Only upload videos that you made or that you are authorized to use."

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 11:10:37

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks guys, sounds like there are some opinions both ways. I would like some more opinions but personally I feel like it is probably OK... I will definitely put BUY DIEGO DEL MORAO'S ALBUM in the info. (It is going to be him playing and not me.)
I definitely don't want to get my account suspended but I'm not too worried about it because there are tons more blatant uploads of his music.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 12:55:56

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 13:44:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

personally I would include the actual guitar you build as an audio over your video, either you playing it or someone else. That's just me.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 16:19:29

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

If it's not yours, don't use it. Or get permission.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 21:31:00

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

If it's not yours, don't use it. Or get permission.

Can't really argue with that honestly.. I think I will just use my own music or something from someone deceased.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 21:54:30

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Might as well try to contact him. He probably wouldn't mind, and you might get another customer , a pretty famous one at that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 21:58:01

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

personally I would include the actual guitar you build as an audio over your video, either you playing it or someone else. That's just me

Yep, that's what Anders and I did for "El Guitarrero". Makes sense.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 23:14:38

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I would play the guitar that I'm making but it won't be finished for a few weeks. I want to put the video up and Orate just sounds so cool with it, kind of an atmospheric effect that I couldn't get with my own recording.

I posted on the "aficionados diego del morao" facebook page to see if anyone knows how to contact to him so we'll see what happens

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2012 23:29:12

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Usually the artists themselves have very little say in legal matters like these. Isn't he on Diego el Cigala's label? So you should contact them instead.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 0:32:39

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I would like some more opinions but personally I feel like it is probably OK...

Man, trust me on this one. Upload the video with Diego's track on it, but, if you get a notice saying that your audio has matched third-party content, be smart and remove the audio and replace it with something else. Even if you do get Diego's permission, and you think it is alright, and everyone here tells you it is fine, and the YouTube notice you get says "there are no actions required on your part - the video will still be available all over the world," just do the smart thing and remove the audio. I believe I am the person with the greatest experience in this regard (or at least one of the most experienced in this regard) as I am constantly uploading stuff on my channels (especially the Arabic pop one, but also the flamenco one) that brings up claims, and I've learned my lesson after getting a copyright strike despite going through all that I mentioned above. In the end, you do what you please, but I am just giving you my advice to avoid a lot of potential headache. Cheers!

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 1:29:43

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

oh wow lol how embarrassment...seems when i first read this post i missed one important piece of information ...i thought you were referring to you playing it, guess instead of reading the whole post...i read the first, middle and last word of your sentences and past type of questions formed the story in my head...my bad...

yes that's a little different, because u are using his actual product, not a copy or anything...if your heart is content on this track and if possible try to get permission from whomever you need to...or be prepared to change audio or something

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 4:31:24

yourwhathurts69

Posts: 117
Joined: Sep. 16 2009

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Under US copyright law, if you use Diego's music without proper authorization, it's copyright infringement. The exceptions would be for educational or artistic purposes. Even with the exceptions, you could still find yourself in a sticky situation with the record label's lawyers.

That being said, youtube is full of copyright infringement, and I've never heard of any one getting sued. Unless you somehow make millions of dollars from your video (or if the record companies feel like making an example out of you), nothing's going to happen. If anything, youtube will just have you remove the video or music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 6:41:59

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I think I will just use my own music or something from someone deceased.

Does this mean you're going to kill Diego?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 8:01:00

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

There are two different issues here:

1. The legal ramifications of uploading music which is copyrighted by a record company. This I am not the slightest bit concerned about. There are so many other MORE blatant uploads of this song and his music in general that it's pretty clear they're not going after it. And if they DID, as Ramzi says I will just pull it immediately and change the song on the video.

2. The ethical problem of using someone else's recording without asking permission. I'm in the process of contacting Diego personally and I would like to get his permission directly to put my mind at ease.

It's sort of funny that now I'm getting sucked into this because the video's not really even that amazing or anything.. when I upload it you guys are going to be like "he did all that for that??" but I really like how the song works

Anyway thanks everyone for the advice, really.
Florian.. haha I guess I could have been more clear. If I could I would just sell my soul to be able to play like Diego and that would be that

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 14:24:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

There are two different issues here:

1. The legal ramifications of uploading music which is copyrighted by a record company. This I am not the slightest bit concerned about. There are so many other MORE blatant uploads of this song and his music in general that it's pretty clear they're not going after it. And if they DID, as Ramzi says I will just pull it immediately and change the song on the video.

2. The ethical problem of using someone else's recording without asking permission. I'm in the process of contacting Diego personally and I would like to get his permission directly to put my mind at ease.

It's sort of funny that now I'm getting sucked into this because the video's not really even that amazing or anything.. when I upload it you guys are going to be like "he did all that for that??" but I really like how the song works

Anyway thanks everyone for the advice, really.
Florian.. haha I guess I could have been more clear. If I could I would just sell my soul to be able to play like Diego and that would be that

Diego does NOT have permission to let you do anything probably. On the disc it shows Cigala to be owner of it in conjunction with warner music spain. Those are the people you should contact for permission....even diego can say use it but hes not allowed to let you. Spain law is not the same as USA law, and in the end my experience shows that they are less than excited about americans using their stuff and are not even obligated to liscense it out for royalties like publishers in usa are. I already told the story of how I tried to get permission form Manolo Sanlucar years ago to make a book of transcriptions....not only did Polygram Iberia not let me (**** americans!!! was the general vibe) but Sanlucar who wanted to let me and my friend do the project, got pissed off to learn he did not own or control his own music!!! Good luck....

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 16:19:16

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

so the best thing to do is nothing...? just do it, dont bother with the record company (unless you wanna do it as an experiment and are willing to accept the outcome)...unless you were some big cooperate company with loads of cash behind you the chances of getting a yes are slim IMO and problem is once you expressed your interest... they might check up on you to make sure you dont...its probably safer that they dont know u exist

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 16:22:08

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Just play one of your guitars, the simple fast answer is yes, it is unethical. It's unprofessional too, featuring someone else's music recording this way.

People are going to write to you and say "Wow is that one of your guitars Morao is playing?" and then you'll have to backpedal and answer no actually that's his Conde'. Are you building Conde's or your guitars? It will confuse viewers. It will turn people off if you confuse them.

Also you want narrate, not orate. Peter Coyote narrates films and documentaries, Hitler orated. Narrator and orator two different things. You could say that certain narrator is also a great orator or has a gift for oratory. But narration in this context is telling a story, you want to tell a story. An orator is one who is versed in the art of public speaking.

Where do kids go to college these days?

The other thing is don't rush, if you prepare a narrative, go slow and carefully. Choose your thoughts and words carefully. People will be watching this for some time. A bad narrative is like listening to a recording of a guitar that is not perfectly in tune. It will nag at the viewer. Have someone else double check your narrative while you edit it.

If it were me I would drop any idea and hassle over connecting with Morao's record company and focus on making your own stuff sound good in the video.

Meanwhile, back to swallowing hemlock.....

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 17:50:44

Don Dionisio

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Are any of us experienced international copyright attorneys?
I know I'm not. Andy, you are selling a product/service,
I agree with Ricardo and Stephen play one of your guitars.
Good luck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 18:12:42

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Since this is an ad i would not post it until i have the permission. If you do have it there is also nothing unethical about it. But nonetheless i wouldnt do it all together, because of the possible confusion, Diego could be endorsing you in any way. I wouldnt pick a homemade recording either. I would pick a pro recording and choose something non-flamenco to be honest. To avoid the endorsing thing for one and secondly i dont think flamenco suits well as background music. Maybe with the exception of some of Vicente's stuff, hehe

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 19:52:57

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Alright you know what, I'm just going to slap an up tempo Django tune on there and call it a day. But it won't be the same

Honestly I don't think anyone would think that Diego was playing one of my guitars or that he was endorsing me in any way but it just seems too messy and complicated now.
I mean it would just be my little no-budget time-lapse footage of a few hours of me in the shop with some cool music in the background. It really doesn't seem that complicated to me but I understand that there are complicated issues around it. Again I wouldn't be worried about the legal issues but even if Diego gave me his personal permission, Cigala is also on the record etc.

Just simpler to use something else.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 20:10:37

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Also I never intended it to be an "ad" or a "promotion". Just a little piece where the music matches the interesting quality of time lapse photography.

It seems like a luthier can't do or show anything that represents what they love without it being labeled "merchandising" or something like that. But that's another thing completely....

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 20:20:55

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Never mind, I've tried it and other music just doesn't really work. This thing will probably never see the light of day

thank you all for your opinions.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 21:02:06

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I sent a personal message to Diego on Facebook so we will see if he gets back to me.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 22:21:58

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Ethics of using an artist's musi... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Man, why go with Diego if you've got me to provide the music for your video? I do have over 1,000,000 views on my flamenco YouTube channel you know. Here's the address:

www.youtube.com/rombsix

Sir Spam-a-Lot strikes again!

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 0:50:24