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RE: FlamencoGuitarTheory.com
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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 RE: FlamencoGuitarTheory.com (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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I was in Spain in May, 2007. I attended two flamenco performances. The first was in Madrid at a very reputable restaurant/club. The dancers were energetic anid competent, the guitarists somewhat in the "modern" mode, and the singer pretty good. He sang one fairly jondo palo that I liked (I forget which one now), the rest was accompanying dancing.
We attended another performance in Ronda, in the basement of the museum in la Ciudad, near the end of the Puente Nuevo. It was traditional, well done. I enjoyed both performances, but mainly because my traveling companion, a non-aficionado definitely enjoyed them.
We were in Jerez in late May, 2007. The seemingly knowledgeable concierge at our nice hotel assured me that all the peñas were closed for the summer. I wondered whether she really knew, and also whether her response might have been conditioned by the supposition that we foreigners wouldn't like just a singer and a gitarist, without any stomping or sweating.
We had lots of fun with other activities.
I just returned to the USA from a six-week trip to Europe, ten days of it in Andalucia. I had hoped to meet up with some foro members, some living in Andalucia, and profit from their local knowledge, but our schedules didn't mesh, except for Estevan and his charming wife Desiree, who were staying in a tiny village in the Alpujarras, literally at the end of the road. Not even a cafe there, much less flamenco performances.
I didn't attend a single flamenco performance while I was in Andalucia. Several times I walked by a place advertising flamenco, stopped to listen through a door or window, and walked on, not attracted by what I heard. In Sevilla my hotel was in Triana. I fell into conversation with a talkative cab driver on the way to photograph the Alcazar. When flamenco came up, I said I preferred the cante. He sang the praises, at some length, of a place within walking distance of my hotel. When I mentioned in another casual conversation with a Triana resident that I might go, he said, "Oh, yes, they perform the true flamenco. Lots of sevillanas!"
I made other plans.
RNJ
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Date Jul. 3 2012 12:36:05
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Ricardo
Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: FlamencoGuitarTheory.com (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
quote:
But as i dont understand the lyrics they only move me 1% of how other singing styles move me.
Now here you have a good point. And in general, the worst lyrics you find in Fandangos de Huelva.
I dont think Cante Jondo is disappearing. There´ll always be some nerds around and besides, on competition level, thats what counts the most. But generally speaking amongst the passive listener and the average "I want to learn to sing a bit of flamenco", Cante Jondo is not doing very well...
Many singers have personal styles, and even fandangos can be quite heavy duty...Paco Toronjo??? Bulerias have evolved from a light fun party music into a very sophisticated and jondo form IMO. Both the intensity of the rhythmic drive coupled with modern lyrics have evolved buleria IMO into a jondo form on par with other styles such as solea or siguiriyas. In fact, the "light" or "chico" concept of flamenco need not apply as a generalization when we take into account specific performers. Since camaron I would say calling bulerias "festero" is too simplistic a view.
Solea and Siguirya have not evolved new styles and the classics are still the only interpretations I hear now a days, although a limited number of styles compared to old days. I blame the baile for that, boxing in and structuring the compas in ways where other interpretions either dont' work, or singers are told wrongly they sing out of compas.
As far as commercialization of flamenco pop, obviously rumba as a form is the culprit as it works more internationally...singers in rito as old as Pepe de la Matrona were already complaing about it, as were Melchor and others. I dont' think that anything really has changed in that sense, rather Camaron influenced too many singers and the baile structured the heavy cante as I discussed above. That's why newer and newer generations are loosing roots IMO, not only because of the attractiveness of Pop flamenco.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jul. 3 2012 15:14:16
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Rmn
Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011
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RE: FlamencoGuitarTheory.com (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
I was in Spain in May, 2007. I attended two flamenco performances. The first was in Madrid at a very reputable restaurant/club. The dancers were energetic anid competent, the guitarists somewhat in the "modern" mode, and the singer pretty good. He sang one fairly jondo palo that I liked (I forget which one now), the rest was accompanying dancing.
We attended another performance in Ronda, in the basement of the museum in la Ciudad, near the end of the Puente Nuevo. It was traditional, well done. I enjoyed both performances, but mainly because my traveling companion, a non-aficionado definitely enjoyed them.
We were in Jerez in late May, 2007. The seemingly knowledgeable concierge at our nice hotel assured me that all the peñas were closed for the summer. I wondered whether she really knew, and also whether her response might have been conditioned by the supposition that we foreigners wouldn't like just a singer and a gitarist, without any stomping or sweating.
We had lots of fun with other activities.
I just returned to the USA from a six-week trip to Europe, ten days of it in Andalucia. I had hoped to meet up with some foro members, some living in Andalucia, and profit from their local knowledge, but our schedules didn't mesh, except for Estevan and his charming wife Desiree, who were staying in a tiny village in the Alpujarras, literally at the end of the road. Not even a cafe there, much less flamenco performances.
I didn't attend a single flamenco performance while I was in Andalucia. Several times I walked by a place advertising flamenco, stopped to listen through a door or window, and walked on, not attracted by what I heard. In Sevilla my hotel was in Triana. I fell into conversation with a talkative cab driver on the way to photograph the Alcazar. When flamenco came up, I said I preferred the cante. He sang the praises, at some length, of a place within walking distance of my hotel. When I mentioned in another casual conversation with a Triana resident that I might go, he said, "Oh, yes, they perform the true flamenco. Lots of sevillanas!"
I made other plans.
RNJ
you really should have emailed me when you were in sevilla. there are very good flamenco concerts every day. but its all spread through sms, mail and facebook in between the the people that are in the flamenco scene. very very potential young artists play here every day in lots of places. 5 euros for a concert is usually a good indication here that its going to be good.
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Date Jul. 3 2012 19:22:48
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