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Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada
Recommendations: Camaron and other s...
I'm looking for some recommendations of recordings of flamenco singers. I know Camaron was considered the best and his collaborations with Paco are some of the best. Which does everybody consider to be the best of his albums? Who are some other singers to check out?
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
hey Shaun welcome to the foro,
Remember you can always use the search tool up there
answering your questions : both of your questions have many answers
1.Leyenda del tiempo, El Camaron de la Isla con la colaboracion especial de Paco de Lucia, Soy Gitano, Arte Y Majestad and Canastera
2.Duquende, Miguel Poveda, Manolo Caracol, Pepe Marchen, Estrella Morente, Nina Pastori, Carmen Amaya and La Nina de los Peines and and and and .........
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
Its hard to say albums as my collection isn't that extensive, but some of my favourites and quite popular singers would be Fosforito, Potito, Carmen Linares and Enrique Morente.
Elie mentioned some great ones, especially Duquende and Niña de los Peines!
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
"El Cigala" (along with Miguel Poveda, already mentioned) was won of the first singers in whom I became interested. He has solo albums but also shows up on albums by Gerardo Nunez, Vicente Amigo, etc.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
quote:
ORIGINAL: shaun
I'm looking for some recommendations of recordings of flamenco singers. I know Camaron was considered the best and his collaborations with Paco are some of the best. Which does everybody consider to be the best of his albums? Who are some other singers to check out?
I like what was his second album with Paco that starts with solea "cada vez que nos miramos" 1970. But his best singing was the live performances from late 70's early 80s. "Camaron Nuestro" is all live with Tomatito, my personal favorite camaron stuff. But I dont' consider Camaron the "best" singer at all. I gravitate to older and older style singers. Caracol was great, but many great singers from Jerez I like too: Terremoto, Paquera, Sordera, etc, then so many masters of certain styles such as fandango vs Solea, where as nowadays singers attempt to sing many different styles and dont do all of em well.
THe most recent good mix of singers that get to focus on what they were good at is Carlos SAura's "Flamenco" movie. Many of them have died since that movie was made however, but it's a good mix to get an idea. The best for cante for me is Rito y Geografia, but its A LOT of video of all the greats.
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
quote:
Who are some other singers to check out?
For a quick answer: you could do a lot worse than work your way through the 20-volume Grands Figures du Flamenco set on Chant du Monde — or anyway, the artists they’ve chosen. Here’s a list:
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
quote:
I know Camaron was considered the best
It depends on who you ask. I know a lot of singers who dont like Camarón at all. They are very tired of all the clones that came after him. Camarón had his style, but there are other other ways of singing. Parallel, there are many who dont like the way Paco accompanyed Camarón. according to those, he was playing to much and with to much power, making everything to monotonous. I personally like Camarón and Paco but I understand the critisism. Before, dynamics where more important in Flamenco and what Camarón and Paco did was a lot easyer to listen to for the ordinary not so interested in flamenco listener.
So listen to a lot of othet singers and players. Here are some. Its just what faal out of my head today and the list could be different tomorrow.
Mairena. M. Soto Sordera Agujetas Tio Borrico (thats good) Poveda
Paquera de Jeréz La Perla de Cadiz Esperanza Fernandez
Players: P. Cepero Manuel Morao Moraito Perico El de la Luna
Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
I tend to gravitate towards the older singers as well. I've been listening to a ton of Caracol lately. I find Pastora Pavón has a really interesting voice unlike any other flamenco singer I've heard. It's so smooth and controlled that it almost sounds autotuned at times.
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
My favorites are Cameron, Fosforito, El Chocolate, La Nina de los Peines, and one I did not know much about until a CD came out with Paco Cepero accompanying him, Santiago Donday. Santago Donday did not produce much commercially, but his CD with Paco Cepero is superb.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to BarkellWH)
Hola Bill
Good to have some cante aficionados aboard. The Cd of Donday con Cepero is an obra de Cepero. He managed everything including the cut and paste in the studio (a bit like Camaron´s last CD which is constructed from bits and pieces in the studio). However it is great to have a memento of Santiago.
Live, he was something else. He knew nothing about cante, for example had no idea of the structure of a simple soleá de Cádiz. But he was, like Agujetas, flamenco puro, way above structures.
When I first met him, at 2 in the morning, after Jueves Flamencos, he eyed my guitar case and commanded me to play seguiriyas. He had a sort of evil eye way of looking at people, so normally they did as they were told. However, he was so drunk (as usual) that after the first tercio, he gradually toppled off his stool. My only claim to fame, short-lived!
He pestered me for several years to record him, but wanted 2.000.000 pts up front and with the incredible problems of keeping him in order in the studio, I declined. Hats off to Cepero.
Another time in he sang in La Cava and noticed I was alone, so he instructed one of his primas to find a wife for me! Imagine being married into that family!!!!!!!!!
Santiago was a diamond en bruto and is sadly missed (in spite of everything).
There are a couple of tracks recorded elsewhere and he appears briefly in the BBC documentary Viaje Andaluz, but his genius has never really been captured.
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to Morante)
Great story, Morante. You were fortunate to have made his acquaintance. Thanks for sharing your experiences with him.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
Aurelio Selles Rafael Romero Pepe el Culata Antonia Mairena Manolo Caracol Juan Talegas Jose Salazar Nina de los Peines Jacinto Almaden Manuel Vallejo Bernarda Y Fernanda de Utrera Pepe de la Matrona Perla de Cadiz
Guitarists
Too many to count, but the two greatest flamenco guitarists I have ever heard are Perico del Lunar and Perico del Lunar Hijo.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to Morante)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
Hola Bill
Good to have some cante aficionados aboard. The Cd of Donday con Cepero is an obra de Cepero. He managed everything including the cut and paste in the studio (a bit like Camaron´s last CD which is constructed from bits and pieces in the studio). However it is great to have a memento of Santiago.
Live, he was something else. He knew nothing about cante, for example had no idea of the structure of a simple soleá de Cádiz. But he was, like Agujetas, flamenco puro, way above structures.
When I first met him, at 2 in the morning, after Jueves Flamencos, he eyed my guitar case and commanded me to play seguiriyas. He had a sort of evil eye way of looking at people, so normally they did as they were told. However, he was so drunk (as usual) that after the first tercio, he gradually toppled off his stool. My only claim to fame, short-lived!
He pestered me for several years to record him, but wanted 2.000.000 pts up front and with the incredible problems of keeping him in order in the studio, I declined. Hats off to Cepero.
Another time in he sang in La Cava and noticed I was alone, so he instructed one of his primas to find a wife for me! Imagine being married into that family!!!!!!!!!
Santiago was a diamond en bruto and is sadly missed (in spite of everything).
There are a couple of tracks recorded elsewhere and he appears briefly in the BBC documentary Viaje Andaluz, but his genius has never really been captured.
Great story. I feel its a bit harsh to say "he knew nothing about cante....structure of solea de cadiz...". Perhaps what you mean is refering to his interpretation of compas? We have been over this topic so much, but I felt his version of solea de cadiz as in that Rito y Geografia was exemplary. Here is a vid of me accompanying him doing a couple different things por solea, I admit it's a challenge compas wise to "field" his tonos, but it seems structurally not much different than ALL other singers of solea from his era and earlier. Further, I would say THIS is the more puro way to sing solea, buleria por solea and such compas wise compared to the squared structured versions that we are most used to hearing nowadays. In fact I feel it sad that it is almost completely died out at this point and that now people look back at this older form of interpreting compas simply as "wrong" or "out of compas".
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
OLÈ Ricardo!
I love that style of singing/playing. But for me it´s kind of hard to play a-long to. Is this one in the "forocante" collection? I´d love to give it a try.
/Henrik
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This is hard stuff! Don't give up... And don't make it a race. Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to Ricardo)
I posted this two years ago. Some of the names have already been mentioned:
Very old (1909-1950s) Manuel Torre Pastora Pavón (La Niña de los Peines) Antonio Chacón
Old (1930s-1970s) Aurelio de Cádiz Juan Talega Tomás Pavón Antonio Mairena Manolo Caracol
Classic (1960s-1990s) Manuel Agujetas Tío Borrico Tía Anica La Periñaca Chocolate Fosforito Fernanda y Bernarda de Utrera Rancapino Pansequito La Paquera de Jerez La Perla de Cádiz Terremoto de Jerez Camarón de La Isla
Contemporary Canela de San Roque Manuel Moneo Juan Moneo "El Torta" Luis El Zambo José Mercé
The list is based on my preferences and the categories refer to when the singers recorded, not their singing styles. So, "contemporary" just means that the singer is still alive and in his prime, although it's getting late in the game for most of them in that category.
There are "rough" and "smooth" voices and singers usually excel in certain styles, so it's going to depend on your preferences. Also, some singers have better compás and a better understanding of what they're singing than other singers do, so your preferences will probably change as you learn more about flamenco. Insofar as old recordings, another factor to consider is the audio quality. For example, some of Manuel Torre's recordings are from 1909 and you might not like the sound, but when you are familiar with cartageneras, for example, you'll probably enjoy the way he sings them.
If you hear good things about a historically proven singer but don't like the recordings, I recommend that you go back and listen to them from time to time because, as I've said, your preferences will change over time. It also helps enormously to understand the letras (lyrics).
I think recommendations are often based on the availability of recordings. Some of the artists mentioned upthread pale in comparison to others but their recordings are much easier to find. I'm not saying that those singers should be dismissed outright (and in the end, it's art, not science), but they're inappropriate choices, IMO.
About Ricardo's video: In my neck of the woods, that's how anyone who knows anything about singing would try to accompany that cante, and there are plenty who might not do as good a job as Ricardo did.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
About Ricardo's video: In my neck of the woods, that's how anyone who knows anything about singing would try to accompany that cante, and there are plenty who might not do as good a job as Ricardo did.
Saddly, I have only gotten the experience to accompany a live cantaor that way twice (impromtu with Diego Agujeta). As short as your list of modern singers to your taste is, I fear I NEVER will get to do it for real. I am not saying there doesn't exist infinite challenges in accompanying Cante in general, but more refering to Solea or buleria por solea, the scope for improvising on the structure as gotten more and more narrow.
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
the scope for improvising on the structure as gotten more and more narrow.
Are you referring specifically to what's available in terms of work in your area or is that a general observation on the development of flamenco worldwide?
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
Nice post NormanKliman. Totally agree about how our preferences are very much influenced by what's available to us, and even what we consider "good" often comes down to those artists with the most exposure and hence, those that are most easily available. I've had a hard time finding older cantaores - was lucky get a bunch of Niña de los Peines, Caracol and Niña de la Puebla when Flamencoapaloseco was still running.
Anyway, the best way to judge quality, especially when you're learning about the intricacies of cante, must certainly be what sounds nicest
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
Jose de la Tommasa Chano Lobato Diego Clavel Diego Rubichi Gaspar de Utrera Tomas de Perrate Fernando de la Morena Aurora Vargas Ines Bacan Alfonso Carpio "mijita" Jesus Mendez
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada
RE: Recommendations: Camaron and oth... (in reply to shaun)
I agree. My taste -- or at least my thought of what a flamenco singer is or should be -- is based on what I have been exposed to. To this point, the bulk of my exposure to flamenco singers has been at live performances but I've never found a recording of any of those singers. Anything I've picked up so far has reminded me of a singer I've seen live.
The best singers are the ones that have character in their voice like Santiago Donday. Based on Morante's story, he was a character beyond his voice, too. I must say, I am really enjoying what he did with Paco Cepero on Morrongo.
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