Romerito Deleted

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Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

Romerito Deleted

Ok, a little peeved that everything of Romerito has disappeared as a lot of time spent discussing topics and such. I assume he requested such a thing because of his doctorate, but still, I think he owed it to the foro to go through himself and delete only things he felt were important to remove. Now there are some gaping holes related to important subjects, especially the rubato tempo vs out compas thread.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=152670&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=diego%2Cclavel

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=167134&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=mairena

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 15:16:42

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

Was it just deletion of his own posts or did the entire thread get removed.

I don't think anyone should have the right to demand deletion of an entire thread - even if they started it themselves.

Maybe the admin can provide some guidance on this ...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 16:20:20

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

I don't think entire threads.
Only his own posts.
I think there is a function in the foro software, where you can delete all posts by someone. Normally when the account is canceled, you only see "guest", but the comments all remain. Now i think here Simon used the other function where you can delete all posts of a canceled account.

I don't think its ok, but if someones carreer or life should be affected, then i would accept that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 18:51:30

NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

So if I am understanding this correctly, we have a user that has used this forum as a resource while writing a doctoral thesis. In the process he has engaged in discussion with various members, no doubt learning a lot in the process and developing ideas for his thesis. Then he decides that his own contributions to the discussions are his and his alone and decides to withdraw them from the forum disallowing anyone else from accessing them.

Just trying to understand the situation...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 19:04:34

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

I don't know. Maybe. I am sure Simon will tell us.
Normally this is not allowed in Forums, because it destroys whole threads.
I saw this in a political Forum where someone told us that he would get problems in Iran if his post shouldn't be deleted. Ok that was understandable. His 4000 posts were deleted together with his account and everyone was ok with it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 19:34:17

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to NenadK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NenadK

So if I am understanding this correctly, we have a user that has used this forum as a resource while writing a doctoral thesis. In the process he has engaged in discussion with various members, no doubt learning a lot in the process and developing ideas for his thesis. Then he decides that his own contributions to the discussions are his and his alone and decides to withdraw them from the forum disallowing anyone else from accessing them.

Just trying to understand the situation...

Pretty much.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 19:37:43

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

Has his account actually been cancelled? Or is it still in effect, and he plans to be more judicious and careful in future posts? That his deleted posts use the handle "guest" suggest it has been cancelled. But if his account is still active, perhaps Romerito himself can offer an explanation for the deletion of his previous posts.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 19:46:09

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Arash)

quote:

I don't think its ok, but if someones carreer or life should be affected, then i would accept that.

With all the Internet crap going on in Social Network, new businesses flourish. Their missions are to clean up or to reset a virtual reputation. Don't know exactly the name of these pro cleaners.

Anyway IMO his behaviour reflects how high was the esteem he gave to this place! And how reliable were his statements

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 20:34:52

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

I don't think its ok, but if someones carreer or life should be affected, then i would accept that.

With all the Internet crap going on in Social Network, new businesses flourish. Their missions are to clean up or to reset a virtual reputation. Don't know exactly the name of these pro cleaners.

Anyway IMO his behaviour reflects how high was the esteem he gave to this place! And how reliable were his statements

It would be interesting to see a copy of his thesis when it comes out. Perhaps it will be a case of deja-vu ...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2012 21:00:25

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

His account and posts were deleted at his request and after some offline discussion. He was offered the opportunity to keep the posts and change the attribution to another name, but he declined. We all retain ownership of our posts here and I cannot claim any right to keep them if requested to remove them by the author. This does not apply to deleting entire threads, without a better reason - usually legal.

Sorry that this is less than ideal for the flow of the affected threads.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 0:22:19

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to hamia)

quote:

It would be interesting to see a copy of his thesis when it comes out. Perhaps it will be a case of deja-vu ...

There's an online database of doctoral dissertations and M.A. theses. If he submits his dissertation there, it should show-up within a year of submission. I'm pretty sure the database is subscription-only (normally subscribed to by research university libraries).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 9:32:48

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

Its good to know that I can delete myself if I one day should start taking my professional connection to this forum serious.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 10:33:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Its good to know that I can delete myself if I one day should start taking my professional connection to this forum serious.

All serious professionals that care about what they write and think it is important to the community at large should delete themselves at will.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 13:52:54

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

His account and posts were deleted at his request and after some offline discussion.

Did he also expressly asked you to lock threads he started?

Hopefully he didn't start the swapshop falseta topic, otherwise it will be locked now!

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 14:14:47

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

His account and posts were deleted at his request and after some offline discussion.

Did he also expressly asked you to lock threads he started?

Hopefully he didn't start the swapshop falseta topic, otherwise it will be locked now!

wow, you are right.
The threads are all locked.

Who is he? Someone special with special priviliges?
What about the other people who posted in those threads or people in future who will search the foro and might want to add a comment or question?

Not good.

edit: ok, seams like only threads STARTED by Romerito were locked, because threads like this are still open

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=177425&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=romerito

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 14:48:21

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Arash)

quote:

edit: ok, seams like only threads STARTED by Romerito were locked, because threads like this are still open

indeed!
that's why i asked to Escribano : "Did he also expressly asked you to lock threads he started ? "

quote:

What about the other people who posted in those threads or people in future who will search the foro and might want to add a comment or question?

And what if I want to delete an answer to him that have no more sense coz his words have disappeared.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 15:38:17

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

Not good.

edit: ok, seams like only threads STARTED by Romerito were locked, because threads like this are still open

Not good indeed.

And what if someone needs to correct or update the information in his/her own posts?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 15:39:56

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

that's why i asked to Escribano : "Did he also expressly asked you to lock threads he started ? "

No, the software does that by default... so I will have to unlock all of them myself... [sigh]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 15:49:59

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Escribano)

I wrote some SQL to unlock those deleted messages. Can you check to see if that has sorted it out?

I can post to locked threads as Admin, so I cannot test it easily.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 15:59:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

I wrote some SQL to unlock those deleted messages. Can you check to see if that has sorted it out?

I can post to locked threads as Admin, so I cannot test it easily.

They appear to be unlocked thanks!

I still think running out after ALL that time spent on those discussions is:

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 16:09:46

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

I didn't know that what you post on the net belongs to you. I thought once you put it out there, it's out there. romerito is clearly a guy who takes his involvement with flamenco seriously, but if he was concerned that someone would make commercial use of his posts, why post in the first place?
Like one of us is going to get rich ripping off the info in his posts? I don't get it? I thought the whole idea of the forum was to share info and knowledge. Can someone explain what he had to lose by his posts remaining on the forum?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 16:15:59

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

I still dont get it. So he left because he thought someone could trace him back to here and claim his thesis is "copied" or not his own work? Or did he get upset about the belittleling discussions about "institutionalized" (as he called it) flamenco?

On a side note: I have read somewhere that for example on facebook, once you post it there, you allow facebook to copy and use it for advertising purposes. Maybe it was a different site, not facebook, but ive certainly read that in some cases the things you put on the net become property of the site owner/ host, even without your explicitly stated agreement to that.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 16:23:22

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

Mark2, I also take my involvement with flamenco serious, especially my professional one and I´ve written many things on this forum that other members have used commercially. I´ve also written a lot of things that have been directly bad for my own commercial involvement on the foro.
But one thing is to take yourself serious and another thing is to be overserious with yourself and in my personal case, I always try to remember that my start on this foro was not based on being commercial, so I let people use whatever they want and will continue to write unpopular things.
Fortunately some members with some kind of commercial relationship to the foro, have the same idea and continue to be the ones they are and not suddenly someone else because they have something to sell or to loose.
That said, there are also some being nothing much but commercial on the foro. And everyday you se that more and more.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 16:26:43

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

I think this is a bad decision to allow him to delete his post(s). But ...

My personal opinion, anything you post on the internet in a forum is public
domain. I don't think you necessarily have the "right" to delete it. However
the site admin can always decide to accomodate an individual's request to
delete their posts ... I don't think they can be forced to delete the posts.
However a court might not see it that way, and likely running a site as a
hobby, you might not want to battle a lawsuit ... Or even just hassle with somebody over deleting their stuff.

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 17:29:46

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I think it's different with you Anders because you are a builder and stuff you write could in fact be used by other builders. I could see how that could be an issue. But romerito is a guitarist. I can't imagine how he would lose commercial opportunity by leaving up posts about accompanying singers, etc. Like I'm going to use a chord inversion he posted about going with a certain part of a letra and THAT is going to unlock the door to riches as a guitarist. It has to be some other reason. I hope it's a good one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Mark2, I also take my involvement with flamenco serious, especially my professional one and I´ve written many things on this forum that other members have used commercially. I´ve also written a lot of things that have been directly bad for my own commercial involvement on the foro.
But one thing is to take yourself serious and another thing is to be overserious with yourself and in my personal case, I always try to remember that my start on this foro was not based on being commercial, so I let people use whatever they want and will continue to write unpopular things.
Fortunately some members with some kind of commercial relationship to the foro, have the same idea and continue to be the ones they are and not suddenly someone else because they have something to sell or to loose.
That said, there are also some being nothing much but commercial on the foro. And everyday you se that more and more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 17:47:03

NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

I think it's different with you Anders because you are a builder and stuff you write could in fact be used by other builders. I could see how that could be an issue. But romerito is a guitarist. I can't imagine how he would lose commercial opportunity by leaving up posts about accompanying singers, etc. Like I'm going to use a chord inversion he posted about going with a certain part of a letra and THAT is going to unlock the door to riches as a guitarist. It has to be some other reason. I hope it's a good one.

He is also writing a thesis so he is kind of an academic as well. I think that may have been the reason for the deletions. I still don't see how having this online might actually be a problem for him. Was he afraid that someone would read his posts and beat him to the punch with regards to the publication? If so, I think he greatly overvalues his contributions. He must hold himself in really high regard if he thinks that someone on the web is going to find his posts, see them as the wealth of knowledge and then include the ideas in their own thesis.

Anyway, I'm speculating here since I don't know the actual reason. All I know is I can't think of a good one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2012 23:43:42

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Ricardo)

IIRC you can't quote yourself--or use ideas you formally or informally published elsewhere--in a thesis or doctoral dissertation. He could actually be accused of plagiarism if he did.

His recent posts were excellent--I'll miss having them as a reference. I'd like to read his dissertation someday. Hopefully he'll share it with us.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2012 0:32:37

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ricardo)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2012 1:02:29

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Ah-ha, so by deleting these posts he's intentionally deceiving them ... Thus
making the case for plagiarism all the more obvious!!! Clearly this was no
accident, there was intent!

quote:

IIRC you can't quote yourself--or use ideas you formally or informally published elsewhere--in a thesis or doctoral dissertation. He could actually be accused of plagiarism if he did.

His recent posts were excellent--I'll miss having them as a reference. I'd like to read his dissertation someday. Hopefully he'll share it with us.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2012 14:29:34

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Romerito Deleted (in reply to n85ae)

If it is forbidden to quote yourself - which im pretty sure it is not the case - then he is all right to break such a childish rule. Plagiarism is quoting ideas that are not yours, without indicating that they are not yours. So that doesnt fit in any case.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2012 15:39:24