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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2005 15:44:21

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2005 15:53:12

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

Measurements:
nut to 12th fret = 435mm
12th fret to saddle = 220mm
Total (nut to saddle) = 655mm

These figures cannot be right!!!!! What are you measuring? Nut to 12th fret on a 650 guitar is 325. Nut to saddle would be the same, but will be a little bit more, because after measuring another 325, the guitar maker adds a little bit of compensation, so that the note at the 12th fret will be the same as its harmonic. This is rarely more than a couple of mms and may be slightly more on the bass than on the treble side.

Try measuring again!

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2005 17:20:34

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

correction: 12th fret to saddle (not nut to saddle)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 0:44:27

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 14:02:28

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

nealf

Not to worry: there is an old saying "measure twice and cut once", but its importance never sinks in until we have have measured badly and made a mess. We have all been there and at least you were not sawing up your fingerboard!

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 15:29:04

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

Sean, You're so right on this one.

I once bought a guitar from a quite renowned builder. Later I found out that he had "forgotten" to add the 1,5 - 2mm of compensation when he glued the bridge on, so the guitar is 1 - 2mm out of intonation.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 15:37:08

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

quote:

I once bought a guitar from a quite renowned builder. Later I found out that he had "forgotten" to add the 1,5 - 2mm of compensation when he glued the bridge on, so the guitar is 1 - 2mm out of intonation.

Anders

I once (recently) bought a guitar from a quite (very) renowned builder. Later I found out that he had "forgotten" to add the 1,5 - 2mm of compensation when he glued the bridge on, so the guitar is 1 - 2mm out of intonation.

I took it back and he was not pleased, insisted that all his guitars were like this and I was the first to complain.

But it seems so insulting to turn up to collect your guitar armed with ruler, tape measure and electronic tuner.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 18:22:07

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

Sean,
how does it sound, then?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 19:02:54

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

quote:

my 650mm blanca is actually a 655mm

Hi Nealf,

You should measure nut to 12th fret and multiply the measurement X2. This is the true scale length. Any variation 12th fret to saddle, is just compensation.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 19:29:09

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

Yeah, I'm taking all this on board...but I thought that string (and other) instrument players were meant to compensate themselves to a degree?
It's not just placing your finger on the fret and expecting it to come out exactly right like playing a piano note?
Slight variations in pressure, or pulling the string slightly will affect the intonation to quite a noticible degree.
When you watch Paco or Tomatito etc play, you can see that they are really using the guitar, getting the sound out of it that they want.
Their left hand fingering has a lot of pulling and coaxing the sound they want to make IMO.
To me it seems that they don't just daintily place their finger behind the fret and object if the resultant note is slightly over or under the reading they got from their electronic guitar tuner?
These guys really work the guitar.
String Bass, Violin (family), Oud players etc don't have this issue.
Why should the luxury of having a fretted instrument, (which at least throws you very closely into the ballpark of correct intonation ) be any different?
So maybe these builders were just building guitars as they had always made them , neglecting the ideas amongst younger and newer Luthiers?

My dos euros?.....

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 20:33:29

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Ron.M)

It's hard to compensate when you have frets - only a certain amount of pressure will do it, then it's over and who wants to do a half vibrato on every note?

It is more prevalent on 2 octave electric guitars; where checking the open harmonics at the 12th and 17th fret against the fretted note are the way to go when buying. On all strings. No tape measure required.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 21:01:03

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

quote:

"measure twice and cut once",

Sean;

That old expression was drilled into us by Mr. Ross, our Wood Shop teacher. Whenever he reminded us of this expression (which was very often!!!) “Remember, measure twice and cut once! The tax payers of San Francisco are paying good money for this wood”! We would answer, “Yes Mr. Ross, cut twice and measure once”! We drove the poor guy NUTS! We had him for six semesters!

Another Mr. Ross thing! Even though you had had Mr. Ross for previous Wood Shop classes he required everyone spend the first two weeks of school reviewing and writing Safety Instructions. You see, Mr. Ross had cut off several fingers and the tips of those that remained. He was a fine example of what not to do with wood working tools!

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http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2005 23:39:34

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Sean,
how does it sound, then?

How DID it sound, then.

It sounded OK, nothing special, but how could you live with a guitar which was out of tune at the 12th fret? and 4000 euros???

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2005 0:31:53

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Yeah, I'm taking all this on board...but I thought that string (and other) instrument players were meant to compensate themselves to a degree?

Agreed. But I am talking about constructors, not players. Guitars are inexact by definition and constructors have a duty to make them as close as they can, so that the players have fewer problems.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2005 0:37:39

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)

quote:

It sounded OK, nothing special, but how could you live with a guitar which was out of tune at the 12th fret? and 4000 euros???

I agree, It's impossible to live with that. At least your very wellknown builder took it back. I still got mine. He filled me with ****, and I ended up doing nothing, because it wasn't worth the trouble (a lot) to get my money back.

It has other problems, so one day I'll probably change the soundboard and sell it. I wont sell it like it is, because I don't want to be like these types.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2005 2:20:34

Guest

RE: Measuring scale length (in reply to Guest)