RE: The gift of pain

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machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

I'm starting to play a bit this week and its going great. I have just changed my approach.

That's fantastic! Good for your for being disciplined during your recovery. It sounds like it's paying-off.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2012 8:13:14

Don Dionisio

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

Such good news, Todd!
All the best as you continue on the road to full recovery.
Dennis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2012 13:32:02

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

Maybe try plucking from the middle joint of the right hand - with a flat hand. It takes a long time (years) to get good at this but it's very efficient and doesn't put the large knuckle under any stress at all. The large knuckle obviously plays a part but the middle joint provides the snappy follow through. I believe this is how PdL plays - although I know many disagree!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2012 14:29:55

JohnWalshGuitar

Posts: 517
Joined: Aug. 10 2009

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

Hey Todd,
Have just been reading this thread. I'm very sorry to hear about your difficulties. I wish you a speedy recovery and glad to hear that you are on the mend. you are a truly fantastic musician.
From your videos I can see that you also have an absolutely great sense of musicality and no hand injury will ever affect that.
All the best,
John

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2012 15:13:23

aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

That's great to hear - hope you recover quickly!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2012 8:32:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to hamia)

quote:

Maybe try plucking from the middle joint of the right hand - with a flat hand. It takes a long time (years) to get good at this but it's very efficient and doesn't put the large knuckle under any stress at all. The large knuckle obviously plays a part but the middle joint provides the snappy fol

Interesting thought. While I disagree 100% about the power of the stroke coming from the middle joint, I wonder if orientating the hand in that way where the middle joints are bent and the big joint much straighter might make less friction on the tendon sheath as Todd described. In other words, I wonder if doing picado with straighter fingers that point down into the strings (as per Paco Cepero Grisha and others) create more friction of the tendons pulling OVER the big knuckles vs players that use bent finger/flat hand orientation....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2012 17:04:00

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 4 2012 19:11:18

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2012 17:38:13

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to Ricardo)

Straight fingers will put the most stress on the large knuckle - this is the principle of a lever. You can see this is true by holding a very long stick and trying to move a heavy object around - it will be much more difficult than using a very short stick.

My own experience is that using the flat hand, middle knuckle approach doesn't seem to cause any problems even after excessive practice. When I was starting out I used to use a very large plucking force and would practice for long periods of very repetitive plucking with no ill effect (not that I'm recommending this approach - although it does build up strength).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2012 0:35:10

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

Managed to re-injure myself. Thought i was being really careful.
I was wrong apparently.

Pain and swelling are back with a vengeance. Here i go again.
I dont know if i can go through all this again.
Can somebody just kill me now?
TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 1:55:49

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

oh noo!! hang on, amigo !

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 2:47:07

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Managed to re-injure myself. Thought i was being really careful.
I was wrong apparently.

Pain and swelling are back with a vengeance. Here i go again.
I dont know if i can go through all this again.
Can somebody just kill me now?
TK

sh!it man.
Maybe your definition of "being really careful" is practicing again for few hours a day. Take it easy man and make a complete pause until its really healed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 8:49:50

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Pain and swelling are back with a vengeance. Here i go again.

That sounds freakin annoying man! But don't give up yet. You still have plenty of time.

Once you heal again, try to remember that music does not need to be fast and complex to be great and communicate something cool. I don't believe you have anything left to prove in the technical/playing fast department. Perhaps you can find a new way of expressing inside your injury safe zone?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 9:13:34

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Maybe try plucking from the middle joint of the right hand - with a flat hand. It takes a long time (years) to get good at this but it's very efficient and doesn't put the large knuckle under any stress at all. The large knuckle obviously plays a part but the middle joint provides the snappy fol

Interesting thought. While I disagree 100% about the power of the stroke coming from the middle joint, I wonder if orientating the hand in that way where the middle joints are bent and the big joint much straighter might make less friction on the tendon sheath as Todd described. In other words, I wonder if doing picado with straighter fingers that point down into the strings (as per Paco Cepero Grisha and others) create more friction of the tendons pulling OVER the big knuckles vs players that use bent finger/flat hand orientation....

I think bent fingers require more force. Point about Leverage is true, but think about stress in the fingers needed to bent them. For example when doing sit ups, it is much harder when youre at the top 10% of height than when your head is on the ground, even though the leverage is bigger.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 10:09:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

You have amazing picking tech man. Just back to that for now
and re examin rh finger technique long after you heal.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 12:56:50

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to Ricardo)

Or think of the great thumb technique you could develop over the next few months..

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 13:01:28

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

Todd, with the intelligence, initiative and persistence you have demonstrated to arrive at your very high level of playing, you obviously have what it takes to overcome this injury. Hang in there.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 17:39:29

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

Thanks all. Sorry to be such a whiner! I'll be fine, i just need to vent.

its a frustrating situation, but eventually, i will be back to normal.

it just takes time. Im learning alot about myself in the process, so thats not
a bad thing. :)

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 17:58:46

malakka

Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 14 2009

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to machopicasso)

Todd,

I too have a sort of RSI and have been dealing with it for a year and a half. I won't go into details, but it SUCKS. I found that I take a step or two forward and then a step back. Things have improved, I can play arpeggios now and couldn't before. Picado is still a problem as is tremolo. Fortunately rasqueados are fine. Extreme patience and diligence to a good practice regime is important. I am sure you are aware of this and like you said, you just need to vent.

I too have learned a lot about myself in my process of recovering - releasing tensions, practicing more intelligently and with focus, letting go of my interior critic, etc. Most of all, trying to put a timetable on getting back to "normal" should be avoided. Your recovery will happen, just relax and enjoy the time with you guitar.

I guess I just needed to vent as well.

Best of luck to you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 18:35:45

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: The gift of pain (in reply to ToddK)

For a doer, doing nothing is the hardest thing, isn't it? Todd, I've been taking some singing lessons. What do you say we do a singing challenge together, in say six months? Just don't clench your hands when you go for the high notes!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2012 19:05:07