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French Polishing
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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 RE: French Polishing (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Here you have my workshop when French polishing. I´ve been asked many times to explain how to French polish. Its something that I find close to impossible to explain. French polishing is a very intuitive and organic process and as a such its close to impossible to write it down. The different tutorials that you can find are so bad in opinion, that they are hardly worth reading.
What I´ll do, is to throw in some few thoughts of mine.
I´ll start with the photo. You see from the left:
A piece of cloth, that is where I´ll put my pad. A plate with pumice and vaseline oil. In front of this a 400 grit sandpaper (later in the process it´ll be 800 grit and 2400 micromesh) A plastic bottle with Shellack, a bottle with 96% alcohol and behind that a glass where I keep my pads so that they dont dry out.
There are some basic proceses:
*sealing the wood with a thin layer of shellack.
*On top of that you start the porefilling. You only use alcohol on the pad. Take your time, dont use to much pumice and not to much alcohol either. The idea is to dillute the shellack already on the wood and make a smeary mess that hopefully ends in the pores of the wood. Let it dry and sand it . Continue the process until more or less happy. (Although I must admit that its difficult to be happy when porefilling). Give it a layer of shellack, let it dry and take a look. Most probably you´ll find out that there werent any reason to be happy..... So more pumice, more alcohol etc.
When you´ve reached the point where you are depressed, stop porefilling, give it all a layer extra of shellack, let it dry for a day and sand it quite heavily. You need to have a more or less level surface. Now go on to next step which is building a body of shellack. Small imperfections will be filled with shellack and you can always add a little bit of pumice to that darn pore or two that wasnt filled. Porefilling can be done all the way up to the final layers.
* Building up body: Well this where its real French polishing. There are many ways of doing that. But here are a few basic concepts. The idea is to add a layer of shellack that is thick enough to be sanded level before the final layers of shellack. The pad can be loaded on the top or or from the back, inside the pad itself. It depends on you and the pad you´re using. The oil is very important and so is the thichkness of the shellack. This you have to try yourself and find what works for you.
Only use circular movements eights or circles, never stop on the surface and never do sharp turns. They always leave a signal. When not doing round movements, land and take of the surface as if it was an aeroplane. As light as possible. In general, try to add as little as possible and press very little, especially in the start of a session and press a little bit more when the pad is getting dryer. Finish every session adding a few drops of alcohol to your pad and do long strokes with the grain using the aeroplane tecnique.
* Leave to dry some days. Then sand flat with a relatively fine paper. I scruff sand very lightly with 400, sand with 800 and I finish off with 0000 steel wool, but you can use micromesh as well.
* Final layers: Thin the shellack and do mostly long straight aeroplane landings and takeoffs. The idea is to make a thin layer, as perfect as possible, of shellack. Use very little shellack and oil, dont try to cover it all in one go. Its better to do a few short sessions and let dry for half an hour in between. In practice, on a guitar body that means doing all 4 sides, play a tune on your favorite instrumen or pet your favorite animal, then go back and do all 4 sides etc. When its all covered, then sing a song or dance because thats it...
* Well, it used to be "Thats it" BUT in these days of stupid perfection, we the professionals have to leave the surfaces as close to glossy glass as possible. So here we go again. Sand with 2000 grit or finer or use micro mesh. Dont take to much off and pray to your local or favorite devine that you are not going to take to much of because then you have to go back to the final polishing state.........
* Polish the guitar with a car polish without silicone or a vinyl sealer. And be proud. Thats important. You have entered the world of mysterious old fashion ways of doing things.
_____________________________
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 8 2012 8:30:56
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: French Polishing (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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El Burdo
Theoretically you dont have to porefill cypress, but blancas still have cedar necks with deep pores and rosewood bindings with pores. And you might want to throw a little bit of stone into some imperfections in the body, soundboard or rosette.
When you´ve added your layer of sealer, suddenly a lot of imperfections show up. Pumice does two things, it lightly sand and it fills imperfections, so it pretty normal to use it on the whole guitar, also on the soundboard.
Its very important not to sand the soundboard to much, this way you might end with a pretty but dull sounding guitar. Believe me, its a VERY common problem for many, also professional builders. Its another consequense of the fact that we can only se beauty through perfection. We judge guitars a lot with our eyes and we should concentrate a lot more on what our ears and hand tell us.
Jim Kirby
When the DVD was made, I was using a pro French polisher. But since then I moved to the province of Huelva and here there´s no such thing. I think I´ve French polished some 60 - 70 guitars now.
Jeff. Breadbaking is good and its high on the priority list for the next chapter in life. Do you still have the other plane.
Juan da bomb:
I use Cyano when filling little imperfections before French polishing. I´m not using Epoxy. I cant see a reason. Besides, I know epoxy very very well from boatbuilding where I use it in kilos and I dont think it has place in instrument building.
_____________________________
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Mar. 10 2012 7:41:12
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rodpacheco
Posts: 80
Joined: Apr. 19 2010
From: Mexico
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RE: French Polishing (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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FP, oh what a topic!
At first I started using Nitro, and after a while, I really liked the result, when done properly in thin layers, looks and sounds beautiful. Downside, fumes and lots of dust. On the bright side, a resistant great looking finish and great sound.
I even finished a couple with Poly, I sprayed too thick and the volume might have suffered a little, less resonance for sure done too thick. Although in my last tonewood shopping trip to Paracho, talked to a finisher that uses ONLY Poly, and I kind of understood better that it can be made very thin and just like Nitro.
More recently started practicing on scrap with Shellac FP, and absolutely loved what I found out in my first experience. I have just received some beautiful Shellac from Napa Valley, shellac.net is the website. Eye Candy ! I already had some amber from Lmii that a found @ la Ciudadela here in Mexico City, and ordered other tones from shellac.net.
I received some Pumice Powder(Behlen 4F), SuperBlonde, Garnet and some Black Shellac I had to try. Some sunburst in mind for my own Guitar. They even threw in a free sample of "Thai Seed" the says it gives a rich red toned FP.
I can't wait to begin FP! I believed FP'ing was very hard, but after some practice on scrap (Rosewood and Palo Escrito) and after reading FP Posts, specially from ForoFlamenco such as this, Culpepper's, Faulk's and GimarYestras' in mind too, have decided to give it a go. I am sure it could well be my finish of choice. I am yet to FP a batch of guitars, but I think the "organic feel" of FP'ng your own instruments is something to be very pleasurable, one can take it easy and is not pushed away from the guitar from some of the fumes of NitroLacquer. I still find it incredible how this old natural finishes are so beautiful, the texture, the whole process starting with the trees and the Lac bugs, the chemical processes, the man exploiting that resource, and the applications it has.
There are no Guitar French Polishers here in Mexico City, and to have finished they would have to go to Paracho first, so I have decided to Finish'em myself, hopefully they will turn as nice as the ones I've seen around.
Rodrigo
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Date Mar. 15 2012 19:28:17
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Jim Kirby
Posts: 149
Joined: Jul. 14 2011
From: Newark, DE, USA
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RE: French Polishing (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Oh, participation, OK ... I really can't add much to a FP thread. I do my few guitars that I manage to complete entirely in FP. I certainly am no expert, but I'm getting better and have at least gotten to the point where I don't embarrass myself. The learning hurdles for me have been learning to work dry enough, and to use as little oil as possible. That has seemed to be the key for me. I usually work with about a 1 lb cut, and use Everclear 190 for solvent (no problem getting that in Delaware). I work pretty closely to the routine in Robbie O'Brien's classical course online, which is basically a modified Marshall Brune process I think. I do not know if there are any problems with working through the process as fast as done in that process, as I never manage to get through it as fast as advertised, so I may be giving the finish more of the desired time to settle that some people think that method lacks.
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Date Mar. 16 2012 0:33:08
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