RE: Bulerias time signature

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El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to rombsix)

Escobillas traditionally start on beat 1, which is the 1st beat for Soleá and Alegría, but the 'theoretical 2nd beat' of Bulería.

I'd have to hear what the dancer did in order to figure out something that would work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2012 22:44:29

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

So still, nobody has given me a simple answer to the question I posted a few replies above. Perhaps this is because I'm too thick-headed or that there is NO simple answer.

I have to state it again: Bulería is the 'child' of Soleá. That is the simplest answer I can give.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2012 22:46:43

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2012 23:07:23

marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to mrMagenta)

when I have been talking to non flamenco people, I have sometimes described it as

"2 bars of 3/8 time and 3 bars of 2/8 time" to make one "compas"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2012 23:47:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

"Why do we start counting buleria from 12 and most other 12-beat palos from 1?"

Because when you increase the tempo you learn that the accents of solea end up becoming the BEAT feeling. Just read my post in the link I provided and watch the video there I put up.

You can super impose the feeling of buleria 2x over a single compas of solea. In this case the 12,2,4,6,8,10 of buleria lays on top of 1,2,3,4,5,6 of solea. Another helpful hint is the remate. The remate of solea happens often twice in the compas, 4,5,6 and 10,11,12. That feeling is or can be the same feeling of resolve you have with your 6,8,10 remates of buleria.

So that is why you count 12 or 6 as the head beat in buleria, and 1,4,7,10 as the head beat of solea.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 3:35:14

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Because when you increase the tempo you learn that the accents of solea end up becoming the BEAT feeling. Just read my post in the link I provided and watch the video there I put up.

By God I think I've got it. I went over the tempo increase in my head starting with counting from 1 por solea and then speeding up to get to a buleria feel, and something happened which made me start feeling that 12 sounds like or feels like the first beat of buleria. I guess this is what you meant by the quote above. I'll review this a bit more and see if it sinks in better.

Thanks everyone - even though I wasn't the creator of this thread, I have always wondered about this "starting buleria on 12" issue, and now I think I have a better understanding.

Cheers!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 7:41:34

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito

quote:

My original point was that Soleá is the palo from which Bulería and Alegría originated. So I think that they should be treated the same, even though they differ widely in tempos.

Not really. The alegria might have originated from the solea in part but it is also a child of the jota. The Buleria also has two parents, the solea and the chufla. It gets its rhythm (hemiola), key (major), and tempo from chufla and its key (phrygian) from solea.

Thanks for the clarification, I knew chuflas had some part in all this, but I didn't know the connection.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 13:12:37

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Because when you increase the tempo you learn that the accents of solea end up becoming the BEAT feeling. Just read my post in the link I provided and watch the video there I put up.

By God I think I've got it. I went over the tempo increase in my head starting with counting from 1 por solea and then speeding up to get to a buleria feel, and something happened which made me start feeling that 12 sounds like or feels like the first beat of buleria. I guess this is what you meant by the quote above. I'll review this a bit more and see if it sinks in better.

Thanks everyone - even though I wasn't the creator of this thread, I have always wondered about this "starting buleria on 12" issue, and now I think I have a better understanding.

Cheers!

Ram, yes that's what I meant when I said the FEEL changes when the tempo gets faster.

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
is the same as the hemeola
1 2 3 4 5 6 1 an 2 an 3 an

Which makes you wonder how the Soleá got 'deferred' by 1 beat??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 13:15:50

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to marduk)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marduk

when I have been talking to non flamenco people, I have sometimes described it as

"2 bars of 3/8 time and 3 bars of 2/8 time" to make one "compas"

Yup, I've heard people count it: 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 1 2

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 13:18:05

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Bulerias time signature (in reply to El_Tortuga)

I find that the easiest way to count it is: 12*,2,4, 6*,8,10 , medio compas makes more sense most of the times for me. which can be made into 1*,2,3 , 1*,2,3 where the the ones are the 12's and 6's. Most of the times I practice with Doctor Compas on the Medio Compas setting (Bulerias in 6's) rather than the regular.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2012 13:43:31