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650mm vs. 645mm scale?   You are logged in as Guest
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Michael1917

 

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
 

650mm vs. 645mm scale? 
Hello. I was wondering if any players (or luthiers) here have any feedback on a 650mm scale vs. 645mm scale in terms of sound. I'm ordering a guitar and tried a 645mm (with 53mm nut) and found it slightly easier to play but the sound seemed not as loud or sharp as I'm used to. My other guitar, a blanca, is 650mm scale and all I've ever played before were guitars at either 650, 655 or 660, and didn't seem to notice much of a difference in sound (loudness or tone).

Does going down 5mm in scale really shift the sound down that much?

Any comments would be welcome. thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 3:23:44
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to Michael1917) 
michael 1917--there are a lot of different variables in play here (pun intended)--you tried a guitar that was not as loud or sharp which may be the guitar itself and not, per se, the scale length. the guitar may have sounded the way it did in the environment you tried it as compared to your guitar played at home, etc. the strings could have been the issue. using scientific principles you would have to hold all factors constant and only allow the scale length to vary to make a definitive conclusion that the scale length altered the loudness/projection and sharpness. the above is almost impossible to do. the guitar that you are ordering may sound different than the guitar you tried. you did mention that you found the measurements comfortable which is a key thing to consider. the other is that a 5mm scale change over the first 12 frets comes out to 2.5mm which is pretty small--but can be significant for some folks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 13:51:13
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to keith) 
This may seem daft to everyone knowledgeable about guitars...

But WHY are there 650 and 645 (etc) scales???

A guitar is just a guitar as far as I'm concerned and I've never asked or noticed!

A diff of 5mm in scale length would be imperceptable to the eye and feel surely?

I haven't a clue as to the scale length of the guitars I have now or have ever owned.

Why stop at 650 and 645?

Why not make a 642.5 for very particular, fussy and critical players?

Sounds like bollox to me anyway.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 14:17:53
 
Michael1917

 

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
 

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to keith) 
Keith,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I do realize that the woods, bracing, strings, environment, etcetera, all factor in and scale length may be marginal effect, if at all. I asked though because the distributor was telling me that shorter scale length would mean less tension and would affect the sound, making it not as loud as I may be used to with my 650mm scale. I had played a shorter 645mm scale and didn't have any problems and found the guitar comfortable and it did seem not as loud -- but there are all those other factors as you noted. ... I guess I was really trying to ask is there really much of a difference between a 645 and 650 scale guitar? thanks again, Michael.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 15:53:06
 
Michael1917

 

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
 

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to Ron.M) 
Ron,

It may be a lot of bollox. I always assumed the different scale lengths were for different sized hands, etc., and for different music in some cases. I guess I was really trying to ask is there really much of a difference between a 645 and 650 scale guitar?

thanks,
Michael
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 16:04:33
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to Michael1917) 
Michael1917--the math will bear out that yes a given string will have slightly less tension on a 645 mm vs 650mm but that can be compensated by using a slightly higher tension string if the goal is to have the tension the same as a 650mm scale length. does the slightly less tension equate to less projection? i defer to the luthiers on this subject. by the way, the 5mm difference which is 2.5mm difference over the fret 12 frets, is about the thickness of 2 dimes. that is not really that much of a difference across 12 frets.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 17:52:57
 
Michael1917

 

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
 

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to keith) 
Thanks, Keith. that's helpful to me.

Cheers, Michael
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2012 18:46:14
 
bthartman

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 7 2012
 

RE: 650mm vs. 645mm scale? (in reply to Michael1917) 
As it turns out, I'm having a guitar made by John Park and specifically requested a 640mm scale length, compared to his typical 650. I've played both (I have an Alhambra 7FC currently with 650) and the 640 is just more comfortable to play. We discussed the merits and possible downside in regards to string tension at considerable length. I'd also played a 630mm scale length guitar, but agreed with John that that large of a difference was really pushing the tension down considerably.

Now as it so happens, John is using the same design and woods as in a guitar of his he built last summer and which he still has. The scale length is the only difference, resulting in a 5mm difference in where the bridge is located. My guitar is almost finished, and he's been playing it a bit. He reports that there's really no noticeable difference in the two guitars. He had sent me an email with the difference in string tension at various scale lengths (John is very meticulous and incredibly knowledgeable), and the difference between 650 and 640 is actually very small.

My decision was that I'm going to be playing this guitar for a long time, and I want it to be as comfortable as possible. I say go for the 645, or even 640 if that's more comfortable for you.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2012 23:38:23
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