Dyslexia and Music

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Dyslexia and Music

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cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

Dyslexia and Music

Hi, I would like to pick the collective brain

My son is dyslexic, anyways the Grade 9 band teacher is on his case about not being able to read music well. I never realized it was so bad but it is coming to a head. I think that is also because he has difficulty with distinguishing the notes etc. He can read books fine, and he is no dummy. He is really a bright and smart kid.

He gets 1 hour of tutoring and about 2.5 hours of band a week. He does not study much, I will try and get him to study more, but he has other things he likes. I also think the reading music is going to become a turn-off for him if it all hinges on that.

So, do you have to read music to do well in band? Any ideas how to get my son better, I am thinking of more ear training and rhythm training? Forget theory, just use the ear. Any famouse dyslexic musicians? (I will also google that...)

I know Paco at one time did not read music, but I think he does now.

Thoughts please!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 15:50:19

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

So, do you have to read music to do well in band? Any ideas how to get my son better, I am thinking of more ear training and rhythm training? Forget theory, just use the ear. Any famouse dyslexic musicians? (I will also google that...)

Well, I'm not exactly famous, but I used to do very well in bands without knowing how to read music.

I have always had a better ear and sense of rhythm than others (humbly, of course

), and when I would be performing in band settings, I would just memorize the music by listening to it and use my ear to reproduce it on my instrument (which at one point was the flute, and at other times the xylophone, and obviously guitar at later stages).

Cheers!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:07:14

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

Forget theory, just use the ear.

I'm sorry, but this line is pure bs.

Theory is - "we're playing in the key on A minor therefore improvising using the A minor scale should sound good over it". Reading music has little to do with theory.

Sorry to hear about your son's hardships, but I wouldn't worry so much about the dyslexia in regards to music. People who aren't great readers are certainly able to talk, right?

What it does sound like is that your son isn't that interested in playing music (which is fine - it's all a personal choice). I wouldn't push him too much if I were you - would've definitely annoyed me if I was in his place.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:22:37

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

i don't read standard notation (just a very little bit) and i really got turned off by it when i started playing, in fact twice i got turned off because i was being taught that it's a must...as mine and countless other examples prove, it's not, learning to read tab (which takes almost no time) is a good alternative...perhaps later he can learn to read notation, for now it's best not to force him to do that or else he will hate playing music altogether...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:27:38

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

My son is a very capable musician who does not read music. He plays electric guitar. From a very early age he has been able to listen to something once and reproduce it on guitar or piano.

He has played in a number of bands and has organized and written for a couple of his own. As a teenager he told me he didn't want to be a professional musician, so he has pursued a different livelihood.

My own experience in school and university concert bands and symphony orchestras is that reading is considered important in these situations. In rehearsals, players are expected to read their parts competently. If the band director is willing to let your son learn his parts by ear, then that could work.

The famous German organist Helmut Walcha was blind. He recorded the complete organ works of J.S. Bach. He learned the music by listening to his wife play one voice at a time on the harpsichord.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:29:50

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to chester)

quote:

I'm sorry, but this line is pure bs.

Theory is - "we're playing in the key on A minor therefore improvising using the A minor scale should sound good over it". Reading music has little to do with theory.

I believe by the word "theory" here he meant basic elements and notation of music. Chester - have you been eating too many spicy Cheetos?

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:31:11

Shawn Brock

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

Sounds like the band director may have a little bit of a hard on... I never had trouble in middle school or high school band, and 99 percent of the time I didn't read. I graduwated high school in 1999, so things may have changed...

I have retinal degeneration, which does just what it sounds like it does, causes the retina in the eye to become useless over time. I started out in life with bad vision, but could read large print. After the age of 10 I had to rely on Braille for my class work. When I started in band at the age of 12 I already had a leg up on the others, because I had been playing guitar 4 years.

Though I could order the music in Braille, by the time it was delivered from Washington D.C, I had learned it by ear, and we were no longer playing the selections that had been ordered.

I made it to All State in band and quire, and never had to read anything... I recall that someone else who was in All State was also dyslexic, and he wasn't a good reader of music. He could blow your a*s off with his playing, but he couldn't read music well. That guy went on to work at the University of Cincinnati teaching Trumpet... So if we could do it, so can your son. The director needs to get off his back.

So often people forget that music isn't just about reading... Even when studying classical guitar at the university level, I chose to only read music when there was no other way. For some reason when I learn something by ear it sticks with me, if I learn it by reading, I always forget it.

Just give him some ear training, and if you read then you could help him with his charts just like you would help your kid with spelling words, or math. And if you don't read, good for you I say! Glad to see that we have some hold outs left...

You know your son is smart, and just make sure that this antiquated school system don't make him feel otherwise.

One of the smartest guys I ever went to school with had a huge amount of academic trouble. He struggled to bring home C's on his report card, but I remember seeing him take a motor apart at the age of 10. Somehow he just knew and had a talent for car repairs. At the age of 32 he now makes $92000 per year working with Nascar. Most of the kids who looked down on his grades will never make that much per year... So who's the smart one?

I say go down there and don't let them push you around. Tell them how it is! Most people who are great musicians don't become band directors, and it may be time to remind them of that... Not that the director isn't a good musician, but he or she puts on pants the same way we all do...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 16:48:49

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

Thanks, got some good replies so far.

I am very aware of not pushing my son too hard so that he hates music. I want to make music fun, but it is a fine line I have to walk, because Jazz band is graded and marked. That is why I plan to talk to the band teacher, after I hear from you guys and get some ideas. This band thing came out of the blue to be honest, I thought he was doing OK in band, but got the email from the teacher yesterday.

I also will talk to his tutor, and move away from the tutor writing stuff down because my son is not getting it the way he is being taught/tutored right now. Another approach is needed.

He is Grade 9 and has to play with Grade 12 also, there is no distinction made in bass. There is no third bass for example like there is for trumpet.

Yes I think my son is having diminishing interest in music, he does not like practicing by himself, but he enjoys working with his tutor. Sometimes we play together also, and I will make more opportunity to do that to help with Jazz band. This may be his last year of band, I hope not, but he has to get through it nevertheless.

Good to hear that you can make it without reading music for band! Sorry I am rambling and disjointed. I am at work quickly putting this together and don't have time to make it nice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 17:54:26

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

There's a difference between being able to sight read music (perform a song as you are reading it) and being able to read music well enough to memorize a song. You don't have to be able to read music well (or even at all) to understand theory, but IMO knowing theory is a must. Paco couldn't read music until around 1990. A lot of great players in rock/metal couldn't read music either. In improvisational styles like jazz people have to be able to read a chord chart--again not as involved as reading music.

Music is about playing an instrument, adding emotion to sound, etc. If reading music is that much of a problem for your child it might be a good idea to focus on an improvisational style.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 18:12:54

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

I believe by the word "theory" here he meant basic elements and notation of music. Chester - have you been eating too many spicy Cheetos?

Just drank some water to cool myself down... Nope. Still looks wrong. Theory is how music works, notation is how it's spelled. Back to my english analogy - knowing how to read does not make you a linguist.

...and on that subject:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn Brock
I graduwated high school in 1999, so things may have changed...

I made it to All State in band and quire...

Dear god. I graduated in 2001, and not from an english speaking school, but I don't think that many things have changed...

As to the notion that it's "cool" to be able to play without reading notation. Wrong again. It puts the musician at a serious disadvantage. It's like studying history without being able to read a book.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 18:31:23

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

So, do you have to read music to do well in band? Any ideas how to get my son better, I am thinking of more ear training and rhythm training? Forget theory, just use the ear. Any famouse dyslexic musicians? (I will also google that...)

-I think that would depend on the band it self, right?
I mean once I was a member of a band called rodrigo and it mainly just played famous Spanish pieces such as habanera, chanson boheme and various guitar concertios ... reading standard notation was a must for every member in that band but I would call that band : a formal band ... maybe a casual band won't requires that

-I think a good method to get your son reads music better is training him gradually just start with him note by note ex. start with the open Re (D) provide him exercises with variation in rhythms then move to Me (E) on same string provide him with exercises that includes (E) and then (D+E) together and so on ... I think learning gradually is the key

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 18:42:36

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

Just some of the famous musicians who are being said to have been / be unable of reading notes:

Django Reinhardt, Slash, Bob Dylan, Pete Townshend, Adrian Belew, Tori Amos, Hendrix, Clapton, Hetfield, Cobain, McCartney, John Lennon, Ringo Star, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Luis Armstrong, Barbra Streisand, Danny Kaye, Mick Karn, Danny Elfman, James Taylor, Tommy Emmanuel, Elvis Presley, Dave Murray, Mike Patton, Jello Biafra, B.B. King ...

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 18:59:52

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to cathulu)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 19:16:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14819
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

He is Grade 9 and has to play with Grade 12 also, there is no distinction made in bass. There is no third bass for example like there is for trumpet.

Bass guitar is pretty important for a large band. It is a bigger responsibility I think. If he had a teacher to show him how to deal with a chart of chords, that would help I think but reading in general is probably a good idea if he truly is into jazz. Guitar players and piano players can get away with just reading charts....in flamenco we don't read at all. There are different disciplines for different music styles. Classical you need to read notes....jazz you need to read charts AND notes and have some theory too. It is just part of the language you need to play with others...in flamenco we need to know compas, cante and baile accompaniment things. That is the "language" and though it does not involve chart reading or note reading, it is equally difficult and requires lots of work.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 19:36:28

davidheis_24

Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 4 2011

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 10 2013 23:37:15

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 19:59:09

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Dyslexia and Music (in reply to cathulu)

My I suggest that you get hold of Every Letter Counts, by the English actress Susan Hampshire.

http://www.amazon.ca/Every-Letter-Counts-Winning-Dyslexia/dp/0593018869/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

which you can pick up second-hand for a penny, plus postage. Make sure you get the Bantam hardback original, and not the Corgi paperback, which is abridged.

She herself is dyslexic. This is not a psychology text-book, but a support aid, with many stories of notable dyslexics and how they overcame their problems.

As to reading music: it’s certainly possible to be a good, or even great, musician, without doing so. Sabicas famously said that it looked to him like a bunch of chicken-scratches.

What may be a problem is communicating with other musicians, particularly those who don’t share one’s own genre.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2012 20:19:07