The Costs of Learning in Spain

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ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

The Costs of Learning in Spain

Hey everybody
Next year I am planning to make the journey to Spain to learn flamenco but the question is money. Taking into account shelter, lessons, food, transport, ect. how much money would I need to study for 6 months or so. I'm sure many of you have made the trip to study flamenco, how much did it cost you. I've spoken to some players who studied there for 5-6 years but I don't understand how they could really have supported themselves with guitar, especially seeing the competition over there.

I don't mind living off bread and oil in a one room place in the middle of no-where, as long as there are friendly people and flamenco. Any ideas, estimates, or ideas for living?
Cheers
Art

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 0:17:46

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

hey Art, nice idea. but make shure you don't over romanticize the whole idea of learning flamenco in Spain. You see, you learn flamenco when you work a lot on it. So it could be anywhere in the world. There is much flamenco to see here, yes. That is an inspiring factor for learning flamenco guitar. But there are also a lot of players who aren't much better than other flamenco guitarists in your own country. I think you will have a lot of fun, because spain is fun. But in the end, whether your in spain or schotland. flamenco is all about working a lot and keeping practicing.

I think flamenco right now is like jazz in the 40's 50's. If you wanted to learn proper jazz you had to go to America. Now you can study jazz anywhere. In a while flamenco will be as normal as jazz. And there will be also much more fusions (like with jazz for example klezmer jazz, or electro jazz).

Flamenco is great and is yet to be discovered by a lot more people. Enjoy while it's relatively autonomous, special and folklore right now (how ever, not sure about the last one)

You could live in Spain quite cheaply. If you go to the weekly market and live in a suburb than you could live for 300 in the month. But private lessons are expensive 30 - 35 euro an hour

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2011 22:37:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

A few thoughts.

*The amount of money you need is very personal
*Go to Spain when you already have some kind of level. Being a beginner means that you´ll always be outside.
* Prepare yourself, learn some spanish. They speak very little english here.
*You can survive with 5 - 600€ a month plus lessons.
*Price of lessons vary a lot. Sevilla, Jerez are the most expensive and booking few lessons makes it more expensive. typically 30 - 50€ a lesson. But you can find good offers by good not so famous teachers like 160 - 180€ a month for two lessons a week.
* Famous players are not known to be the best teachers.
* What Rmn says is correct. Learning flamenco is hard work and discipline over everything else. But inspiration is important as well.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 7:44:41

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Thanks Rmn and Anders
Hmm last time I went to Spain I studied in Sevilla which was quite pricy including living (my parents supported me back then but now I'm gonna have to live cheap

). 160Euro a month is quite good I suppose. In that case where do you think would be cheap to study? Creo que puedo hablar bastante espanol, aprende por dos anos.

Although I know that it comes down to hard work a large reason I really want to go to Spain for the exposure to flamenco and the aspects that I don't get much of down in Australia, the cante and to a lesser extent the baile.

...ah the dreams... ...so how hard is it to get citizenship...

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 8:29:32

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Antonio Dovao in Huelva will teach you 2 times a week for around 180 - 200,-€ a month.
He has a website and he gives online lessons as well, so you can test what he is doing. He´s a typical guitarist working with cante, meaning he has good solid material which is very flamenco and not to difficult. I take lessons with him sometimes and I like it and I´m pretty ìcky with teachers. Also, he mainly teaches his own material.
Huelva city is ugly and very provinsial, but its cheaper than most other flamenco places and Sevilla is just 1 hour away.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 16:04:44

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Art,

Bite the bullet and live in a very flamenco city. I think Sevilla would be great, there’s flamenco happening every night and everywhere, and all the big flamenco artists go there to do their shows. I lived there for 6 months. I’ll break down my cost to give you an overview:

Rent: 250 euros a month

Food: 40 euros a week (buy your food and beer at “Mercadona” make sure you learn to make/eat pasta)

Transportation: buy a used bike

Lessons: 65 euros a week for 2 lessons

Buy strings before going to Spain, I went through a pack every 3 weeks at 7 to 8 hours per day (I get my strings from stringsbymail.com). Also buy a light guitar case like the Wolfpak case with straps. Last and not least get a sponge to dampen sound on your guitar. You’ll be practicing all night long. That’s all I can think of.

Maybe an iPhone that can record hd video for lessons, audio for shows and juergas plus work as your phone, phone usage will be one of your costly items. Laptop?????

Best of luck,

Marco

oh yeah, don't spend money partying to much. it goes fast hahahaha.....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 17:02:15

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to mt1007)

quote:

oh yeah, don't spend money partying to much. it goes fast hahahaha.....

Or learn to party with others with little money

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 20:36:42

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Muchas gracias por tus repuestas.

quote:

Antonio Dovao in Huelva will teach you 2 times a week for around 180 - 200,-€ a month.

I checked out his several websites and looks really good. I will definatly have a look at that option.

quote:

Buy strings before going to Spain, I went through a pack every 3 weeks at 7 to 8 hours per day (I get my strings from stringsbymail.com). Also buy a light guitar case like the Wolfpak case with straps. Last and not least get a sponge to dampen sound on your guitar. You’ll be practicing all night long. That’s all I can think of.

Strings, check. light case, came with guitar, check. Sponge? Really? What do you actually do with it? put it inside the guitar?
Now I'm remenising of Sevilla, 3 in the morning watching flamenco in triana.

So all up in Sevilla I figure about 800 Euro a month (thats with additional expenses) and in huelva? mabey what, 550-600?

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 23:56:22

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

I lived with roommates, so practicing at 4am without a sponge was really annoying for them. I put the sponge between the strings and soundboard, near the bridge.

Triana is great; I lived in barrio “El Tardon” for a minute…. I bet Huelva is cool, never made it there. Suerte on your travels!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2011 15:57:24

JieXian

Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 8 2010
From: Malaysia

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to mt1007)

Whoa 30-50 euros and hour is expensive?

Over here a total beginner pays about RM50 an hour with the typical clueless teacher who'll make you cringe. Later on as you progress up the "grade ladder" it gets more and more expensive.

I'm going to take some jazz lessons from a highly recommended jazz teacher and he's charging RM100 an hour....

As a comparison, waiters make about RM4-5 here. At KFC it's RM3.50.

Anyways, it's good news for students there but bad news for my plans to go there and make some money teaching beginners :(

_____________________________

Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.

Check out my (non-flamenco) compositions :D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2011 8:06:48

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

quote:

total beginner pays about RM50 an hour

That's quite normal world wide I think. I suppose the price is really because Flamenco is a specialized field which requires many techniques and aspects that are difficult to learn out of a text book.

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2011 9:59:18

JieXian

Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 8 2010
From: Malaysia

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

I mean don't convert it into your currency, imagine that total beginners paying 50 euros an hour.

My point is that relatively, learning music seems to be insanely expensive here.

_____________________________

Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.

Check out my (non-flamenco) compositions :D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2011 7:14:40

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

quote:

I mean don't convert it into your currency

Yeah when I converted that seemed quite good for a bit. Then again I think a lot of the time it is similar price for a good teacher. I'm relitivly new to flamenco and i was paying $60 an hour but my teacher just hiked up all his prices to $70 cus he had so many students. I think really the tip is to become less dependent on teachers. I used to be very dependent on my teacher for motivation and inspiration to play but now (partially due to finance) i have less lessons but practice more and am more motivated.

I've started to learn a lot and get a lot of information through foroflamenco now, this place is like my second teacher =) when I need some information or new music I just look it up!

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2011 12:22:25

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

these prices are ridiculous and insane. Like that flamenco will be an elite art. while the charm of it is the folky aspect

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2011 12:49:28

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

I actually living in Fuengirola(Malaga), I get charged 15,- euros/hour for private lessons and 12,50 for a small group lesson by local guitarists. They both are great players! Rent isn´t that high over here, I pay 600,- for a 3 bedroom apartment. So for a studio you can easily find something for 400,- a month. The problem is that if you haven´t got enough money, you need to find a job!! and thats not easy now.

Also very nice flamenco scene over here...

If you want i can get you in touch with any of these guys, or if you need any other information just let me know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2011 18:36:53

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

quote:

I'm relitivly new to flamenco and i was paying $60 an hour but my teacher just hiked up all his prices to $70 cus he had so many students.

Hey artzumer, Are you from Brisbane? Who is your teacher?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 5:38:02

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Hey KMMI77
Yeah I'm a Brisbanite, you?
I've been learning from Gerard Mapstone (if you don't know him http://www.gerardmapstone.com.au/) for about a year now although on and off because I'm in my final year of school and am very busy at the moment.

Now that I think of it I can't think of many other Flamencos around Brisbane!

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 8:49:22

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Yes i live in Brisbane. There are quite a few players hidden away in brisbane actually. Gerard and i have known each other for a long time. We play together when gigs pop up every now and then. Anyway, nice to meet you and good luck with your spain trip.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 9:30:13

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

Before you pay 30-50€ for a single lesson make some friends and study with them. you are learning a lot that way. If anyone involved into flamenco singing invites you for lunch you can be sure you'll have to accompany some singing. That's always a good lesson.

quote:

Go to Spain when you already have some kind of level. Being a beginner means that you´ll always be outside.

Anders is right. If you have some fancy falsetas that you can show to other players they will meet you to exchange falsetas. Sometimes I spent 3-4 hours with someone doing nothing but studying hard on technique, falsetas, harmonies, exchanging things...that is the best way for me.

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Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 9:38:50

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

quote:

Gerard and i have known each other for a long time.

hahaha It's a small world, I'm sure I'll see you round somewhere in a couple of years when I improve my playing!

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 10:04:36

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to koenie17)

I’d like to mention Córdoba: it’s not always immediately thought of as a flamenco centre in the way that Cádiz or Jerez are; but it’s the home of Paco Peña, Merengue de Córdoba, Vicente Amigo and Paco Serrano.

Merengue was the teacher of both Vicente and Paco Serrano, and as far as I’m aware he still has his flamenco school. As soon as his students can put a few chords together and keep in compás, he makes them accompany the dance class, which IMHO is very sound.

Paco Serrano teaches at the Conservatory, but will also teach privately. He’s one of my favourite players, I think he’s very underrated.

Then of course there’s the Festival in the summer, with classes and all the top players. I used to go every year; but it’s hot.

Before I made friends there, I used to stay at a little pensión with other students, which was near the centre and relatively cheap. I presume it’s still there.

Fonda Maestre
Calle Romero Barros 16
Córdoba
(957) 47.53.95

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 16:36:53

ArtZumer

Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas

RE: The Costs of Learning in Spain (in reply to ArtZumer)

quote:

Merengue was the teacher of both Vicente and Paco Serrano, and as far as I’m aware he still has his flamenco school. As soon as his students can put a few chords together and keep in compás, he makes them accompany the dance class, which IMHO is very sound.

Paco Serrano teaches at the Conservatory, but will also teach privately. He’s one of my favourite players, I think he’s very underrated.

Wow I'm suprised to such great guitarists are giving lessons. They must a fair amount surely.

_____________________________

“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2011 22:26:32