dead sounding g string

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wreckx

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 22 2011

dead sounding g string

i presently possess a Cordoba GK Studio (blanca) hey, it's the best that i can do.

it is a wonderful sounding guitar save the dull/dead sounding g string and some some sort of sympathetic vibration, that i wouldn't characterize as fret buzz, in the 4th string between the 2nd and 3rd frets when i don't hit the fret dead on. this is the only place on the neck where i experience this phenomenon.

whenever i play scales on the d and g strings i always get hung up on the substandard tone of ascending to the g string as well as descending, not so much when it's fretted but definitely when it's open.

yes, i changed out the string with the only single string i could find in my po dunk town, which was a Salvarez (yellow card) extra hard tension string and while there seemed to be some improvement it wasn't enough to satisfy me completely by any means.

and as regards to the vibration on the 4th string... when chording it is not always possible to hit the fret dead on and when i can't this causes the vibration.

would be very interested in possible explanations for these phenomenon from any of you luthiers. is this a common problem and what causes it?

Cordoba has graciously agreed to look at the guitar for me and correct the problem or replace the guitar. however, i'm a little concerned that some tech will sight the guitar, say that it's set up to specs and not consider the overall playability of the guitar, because while it may be subtle difference in tone to a casual listener, it hangs me up enough that i don't enjoy playing the guitar which is a real shame.

would appreciate any and all feedback.

thanks in advance for your replies.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 16:36:10

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

Perhaps the buzz is back buzz. you could try raising the nut a tiny bit to see if that fixes it.

As for the G string lots of guitars of that level will have a problematic G string. Some are dead and some wolf. It may be possible to change it if you are willing to try and lighten the guitar on the inside. Perhaps best for a pro though. Plus you gotta have pretty skinny arms!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 18:04:22

Shawn Brock

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

Oh Man! I hate to hear of this. While the GK Studio is good bang for the buck, (own one myself), I quickly found out that they pretty much suck! I bought mine to use for gigs and just loved it. After a week the bridge, or at least the saddle began to settle. The action dropped drastically, and I had to put a shim under the nut and saddle. This caused yet more problems... The intonation went to hell, and having a shim between the pickup and saddle is never good... When I contacted Cordoba they said it would take 6 to 8 weeks for them to inspect the guitar and either repair or replace it. So what was I going to do? I was leaving to play some gigs in Europe and had planned to perform on this guitar. My thoughts were that I'm getting old and grouchy, and don't want to take my best guitars on trips like that anymore. Plus I don't like outfitting my best guitars with under saddle pickups. So that was the entire reason for getting the Cordoba. I had owned a 55FCE, and had good luck with it. I soon learned that the products from China weren't up to snuff though. I went out and bought another guitar, and mailed this one back to Cordoba. True to their word I got it back in 8 weeks, and nothing was changed. They said that the guitar was playable and therefore they wouldn't replace or repair it. They also said that if the guitar was buzzing and the intonation was off, it was probably because I played to hard. Its true that my attack is a little strong, but nothing like that! It didn't seem to make a difference that I am a recording artist with songs on Billboard, and gig quite a bit. I'm not saying that you will have the same experiences with them, and you should fight them all the way to make things right, but I didn't have much luck. I'm even reluctant to try to sell this guitar on EBay, because if a true classical or flamenco player buys it, they won't be happy with the action. Another problem they have is that they don't have enough clearance between the frets and fretboard. If you start comparing how much fret you have on the GK to other guitars, you will notice a huge difference. I'm betting that's the problem with your G string. They can't do frets in that factory worth a damn, and they seem to use the smallest fretwire they can find. Something in the over all design is wrong with these guitars. I have noticed that they just don't have enough string tension no matter what they are strung with. I lay the blame on Kenny Hill's design and oversight of the factory. Every time I go to Guitar Center I always make it a point to play the GK Studio's. I'm in there about once a week and have found that the saddle settling is a common problem on these. This is probably caused by the under saddle pickup compressing, plus the fact that they aren't using good dried woods in the factory. I wish you luck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 18:13:52

wreckx

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 22 2011

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to Stephen Eden)

could you explain what you meant by wolf and the difference between it and dead? i've heard that term before, but i don't know what it means.

is this problematic g string something that can be corrected or is it just inherent in some guitars and should i be insistent on getting the guitar replaced?

believe me i wish i could afford a much better all solid wood guitar. i really enjoy the sound of a ringing, chiming nylon string guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 18:20:42

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

quote:

probably because I played to hard. Its true that my attack is a little strong, but nothing like that! It didn't seem to make a difference that I

Wolf tone is a annoying tone, that dominates the frequenzes.
Try putting a Daddario composite G string on the guitar. (The brown one) It sometimes works wonders

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 19:37:02

wreckx

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 22 2011

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

i read that very same thing somewhere else.

i do know that in an attempt to correct the problem i purchased a single g string which turned out to be a Salvarez (yellow card) hard tension string and i did "seem" to notice some improvement.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2011 20:26:43

wreckx

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 22 2011

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

i put the original g string back on to listen to the difference between it and the extra hard tension Salvarez (yellow card) i purchased to see if it helped and the older string itself started buzzing when played hard. my hard, with no real technique to reinforce it is NOT very hard.

in doing my research on this guitar prior to purchase, i remember there were a lot of comments about changing the strings right out.

being new to this style of guitar and given the issues i've related, what strings would you more experienced members recommended over the Salvarez Crystal Corum high tension 500-CJ's that came with the guitar?

i feel that i owe it to myself to attempt putting a fresh full set of strings before pursuing any major avenues, such as an exchange or a return.

another thing that i am beginning to notice now that i've had the guitar a few days is that the guitar doesn't stay in tune worth a damn. if i play it for five minutes (before the g string starts to frustrate me) and put it back in it's gig bag when i pick it up shortly after wards i always have to re-tune it and this is after a few days now of being tuned to proper tension.

my biggest concern is if i return the guitar to Cordoba and they choose to deem these problems as minor they'll say the guitar is playable and send it back unchanged.

thanks for all the feedback by the way. it is much appreciated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2011 10:58:21

Shawn Brock

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

If you put on a set of the Daddario J45's or J46's, (45 is medium, and 46 is high tension), you may notice some difference with the G, but I don't think that it will be the one magical thing which will satisfy you with the guitar.

I have owned 100s of guitars and tried pretty much every brand of string that can be found. In my experience the strings don't hinder or assist a guitar all that much. Don't get me wrong, some strings are just junk and don't sound or play good on some guitars, but its not the end all for an instrument. What strings you put on a guitar is just like how far or near you like to put your car seat to the peddles. It makes a big difference to you, but even if you are a little to far back or to near you can still drive the car. Maybe you won't be in your comfort zone, but you still can operate the thing...

If I were you I would try a set of the J45 or J46, just to make sure that you have given the guitar all the chances you can. If it don't work out, I would try to return it. That is one of the good things about some of these places like Guitar Center, you have 30 days to return something if it don't work out.

In that price range one of the best guitars I have ever seen is these new flamencos from Orpheus Valley. They are around $450 for the entry level guitar, and they kill the GK. The first one I ever saw was last week, and I almost bought it on the spot, though I have 8 guitars which are worth more than $3000 each. The only bad thing about these Orpheus Valley guitars at that price is they don't have a pickup. So if that's something you need, it may not work. Trust me on this though, they are set up great, they have plenty of volume, and its the best anyone could do for that kind of money. I just can't put into words how shocked I was when I played those guitars.

As for the guitar going out of tune, nylon strings do that a lot. If the pitch is falling drastically then I would say that the saddle is sinking, just like my GK did, but if the guitar is just going a little out, that's normal. The tuning machines are pretty cheap on the GK though and they will go out of tune a lot easier than upgraded tuners will. Something that some guys do is when they first pick up the guitar, they will run their hands swiftly up and down the strings for a little while. When the strings have warmed, they are more stable for tuning. I have even had some strings that would fall into tune after I warmed them up. Because nylon is so heat sensitive, they do expand and contract more drastically than steel strings.

Just keep hanging in there buddy, and keep posting on this. I'm interested in the outcome with this guitar.
Shawn

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2011 21:39:11

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to wreckx)

A wolf note is described as twice the amplitude and half the frequency. a honky note that really stands out and it very annoying indeed. A Dead note is less reactive than the rest of the notes and doesnt really ring out either.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 10:06:03

wreckx

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 22 2011

RE: dead sounding g string (in reply to Stephen Eden)

given the two definitions provided there i'd say that i have a dead string

however, i was able to get some improvement by turning the truss rod counter clockwise about a quarter turn in eight turn increments.

this caused the g string to buzz, which was a good thing, because that meant there was enough tone being generated to genuinely vibrate the string.

it also caused me to inspect the nut and sure enough the g string slot was a little wider than the others causing it to buzz. i put a thin piece of teabag label paper around the string in the slot and the buzz disappeared and the tone improve perceptibly.

things are improved enough that i was able to get in a half hour of practice without getting frustrated over the tone of the g string. actually enjoyed it and amazingly enough, all the strings seem to be staying in tune better.

i am very interested in trying the d'addari ej46's (high tension) with the composite g string.

i'm not suggesting these actions have permanently corrected the situation, but i'm not complaining about the results either.

i was informed by Cordoba that my return authorization is an open window, which mean that i can send the guitar in now or six months from now. so, i have a little time to continue tweaking (if you will) to see if i can obtain positive results.

i do believe the course i'm going to pursue is obtain an humicase protege send the guitar in it to the factory, let them dress the frets properly, give some proper attention to the nut and let them set it up good and proper.

before i order a humicase protege and ship it back i'm going to pursue the option of taking the gk studio and a steel string dreadnought i have and see what i can trade them in on at guitar center. i think that i owe it to myself to put my hands on and lend my ears to a guitar and discover when one really speaks to me. but, that's a six hour round trip that's going to cost me $60 in case that i would much rather put towards a possible new guitar.

i think if i'm successful i'm going to steer away from electronics as i have a couple of instrument condensor mikes and definitely go for a full bodied solid wood guitar. would like to compare the cordoba's against the rodriquez's, that bulgarian guitar manufacturer and better yet see if i can find a cherry used instrument that's worth more at the same price. perhaps one of the real "made in Spain" guitars.

anyway, thanks again for all the positive feedback. maybe something in this tale will benefit someone else.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2011 14:39:23