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hit and run in China - this world is a sad place
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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 RE: hit and run in China - this worl... (in reply to ArtZumer)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealf
... up here in Canada we had a similar situation a few years ago .....
This is saddening news.
Even in the challenging times of the gold rush there remained a lot of the civility common to that area. Despite own hardship helpfulness and cincerity vastly prevailed.
Typical for areas of northern hemisphere, from the Inuit, over Alaskian, Canadian, Siberian to Scandinavian mentality where rough natural conditions provided traditional culture of solidarity.
I suspect contemporary cultural changes in Canada to be due to intensive immigration of past decades.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Hmm I find this one of the most thought-provoking to the masses incidents in the last couple of years. Whose to say.
Common denominator should, which allowed a weak link like us to survive yet over millions of years.
The minute thelike not be clear to us anymore, we will be lost.
- Unfortunately, as is in the meantime, taking with us all the higher developed fellow species of this magnificient evolution.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Although I think naturally we all have that instinct to go help, ...
Soberly / scientifically humans have no instinct. There exist several genetically provided preconditions, none of which however equals wholy conditioning like with instinct.
I just wished common sense would finally realize the fact and let the wishful thinking / romantic idea of human "instinct" aside for good.
In regard of this very example, we are stuffed with precondition of empathic / social capacity from birth, which however need to be entertained and developed to establish. If upbringing however won´t provide necessary conditions, humans can become the most apathic and cruel creature of all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
... culturally it is very different in China, what's to say we are right in saying that those who stood by are horrible people.
Characteristically provided / humane mind will tell instantly by its very nature.
With such passive stand-by as hypothetically natural attitude we long since wouldn´t be in existance as a species, to start with.
Yes, Far Eastern cultures with their major and misled custom of pretending no emotion / emotional sensitivity represent the worlds peak of detouched and cruel culture.
And who, for a misunderstood conception of tolerance, thought it PC to let such culture be as is in sight of human dealings; should realize that the defenseless animal world at the latest would be definite reason to voice critique and channel retarded cultures towards reconsideration / empathical sensation.
Daily, billions of animals are being finned, skinned, amputated and boiled alive, and no human being of his mind should consider such a needless hell tolerable.
Thoughtlessness and cruelty are no cultural section worth preserving for the sake of some misunderstood, literally stupid sense of political correctness.
Lesser even while nearly all of the worlds big game are being on extinct, with a major part of it due to vanishing in Chinese cooking pots and traditional pharmacies, merely for utterly idiotic superstition ( in the year 20011, still, damnit!), whilst the Chinese government couldn´t care less to produce a number of educational TV-spots to finally end the horrible background and yieldings of their peoples´ crude being.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Does human life have any innate value?
While evolution has no specific aim other than prevail, life has the innate rational value of foregone efforts and actual ecological contribution.
Hence, the value depending on quantity of a species ( whether idle, on decline or over populating ) and its effects on an ecological system.
From there human beings factually are currently the least valuable and most destructive to the evolution of higher developed species, including itself. ( A paradox, right. Our major cultures of the past 5 millenia have been worshipping paradoxum.)
It is our simplicistic and aribitrary bias that catgorizes value of species by ranking what appears to subjectively ressemble the observer ( as thinking species ) the most, without yet a clue of inherent failure within the arbitrary category.
Science in the meantime is exponentially discovering more and more on unconceived cognition among fellow species on a daily basis. Making startling explorations on cognitive abilities, up from the higher developed species to down to the most "primitive" ones like croaches and mosquitos, and even microbes.
We are about to learn how apart of our ways there exist diverse forms of intelligence, only that the observed species will have gone extinct until we will have remotely comprehended.
Our evolutionary specialisation and means of survival has been reason.
Considering that where there is no empathy there is no reasoning, we may sense the estranging / inhumane path we have went to.
The example in the video being only indicator and tip of the ice berg.
Ruphus
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Date Oct. 19 2011 13:26:05
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ArtZumer
Posts: 67
Joined: Aug. 4 2010
From: Brisvagas
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RE: hit and run in China - this worl... (in reply to rogeliocan)
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quote:
Common denominator should, which allowed a weak link like us to survive yet over millions of years.
The minute thelike not be clear to us anymore, we will be lost.
I don't understand what your trying to say here?
quote:
Soberly / scientifically humans have no instinct.
I'd like to see any actual scientific evidence to back this up. Don't you think humans have an innate instinct to help each other - and help the human race continue. I wouldn't say it's a romantic idea rather an evolutionary traite for specias survival.
quote:
Daily, billions of animals are being finned, skinned, amputated and boiled alive, and no human being of his mind should consider such a needless hell tolerable.
I completely agree, the senseless and mass killing of animals is contradictory to how we treat fellow humans. Personally I'm vegetarian.
quote:
While evolution has no specific aim other than prevail, life has the innate rational value of foregone efforts and actual ecological contribution.
Yes but put it in the big picture and none of this truly matters at all. If that footage hadn't been given then the girls death would have had no true effect. Eventually IMO your value of life falls upon your belief system especially your afterlife belief system. If you assume that there is no afterlife or god then I don't personally see that life had any true value. If the same destination is being reached and from that point there is no recollection, does how we act change anything?
Also I think there can be reason without empathy, simply because of self survival will promote reason.
_____________________________
“I’m retired now so the practice is down to just 4 hours” - Julian Bream
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 21 2011 22:31:20
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: hit and run in China - this worl... (in reply to ArtZumer)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
quote:
Common denominator should, which allowed a weak link like us to survive yet over millions of years.
The minute thelike not be clear to us anymore, we will be lost.
I don't understand what your trying to say here?
Humans are a physically weak species which was only able to survive in an ambience filled with superiour predators and of natural catastrophies by developing and maintaining strong social and solidary behaviour.
By a cultural common denominator particular to humans, individuals should be in a position to tell self-evidently the human degeneration shown in the video.
If they can´t ( hence, being incapable of basic empathical sensation ) they - other than physically- are not what makes human being.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
quote:
Soberly / scientifically humans have no instinct.
I'd like to see any actual scientific evidence to back this up.
That isn´t hard to do. It is basic behavioural science, that can be read up on.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Don't you think humans have an innate instinct to help each other - and help the human race continue. I wouldn't say it's a romantic idea rather an evolutionary traite for specias survival.
As mentioned already, humans do not have instincts. With humans instincts have been replaced by consciousness.
Human behaviour is determined by culture and upbringing. ( With a blank yet highly potential precondition for learning that represents special opportunity of progressing, but can be just as much detrimental if neglected, depending on the surrounding.)
And when culture of humane standards is absent, individuals will turn out correspondingly. Surpassed then in social ability by any of the herd / group living fellow species ( who besides, unlike men, do have genetically preconditioned social routines to which they learn additional customs after birth. ( Individual proportions depending on species in question [ cats for instcance at 50:50, while squirrels for instance being 100% stuffed with innate routines]).
Humans are exclusively able to commiserate / feel the urge to help if they have had the chance to learn the associative ability.
Their mirroring neurons and emotional brain sections need to be wired up through corresponding interaction at the age before 6.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
quote:
While evolution has no specific aim other than prevail, life has the innate rational value of foregone efforts and actual ecological contribution.
Yes but put it in the big picture and none of this truly matters at all. If that footage hadn't been given then the girls death would have had no true effect.
That video is not the only indicator of contemporary culture.
Minimal state of education provided, a look around alone will do to realize a downhill of culture and menatlity.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Eventually IMO your value of life falls upon your belief system especially your afterlife belief system.
It is a matter of philosophy in the first place. In the sense of philosophy as the mother of science and reason.
Mythology on the other hand may occupy who deems worldy matters to be so much in order for a luxury of going into ifs and whens of the undefined and paint in.
In sight of the world however it is about definite matters like disintegrating and tormenting effects on fellow humans and fellow creatures who in fact shouldn´t be affected by arbitrary outcome of irrationality, insanity and thoughtlessness.
What must be unquestionably innate to every creature is its right to a life without molestation, at the least however at our premisse of "inflicting the minimum of pain" as quoted above.
Noone knows whether there be the hypothetical afterlife of cockaigne and granted virgins, court, paradise, hell, reincarnation or just a rather likely plain switch off.
What is tangible instead however are the happenings while we are walking on earth.
And we stay responsible for our effects on surrounding and environment in the here and now, independently from whatever mythology one might want to hole up with, or not.
Wordly conditions are what definitly counts to either life or devastation on earth.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
If you assume that there is no afterlife or god then I don't personally see that life had any true value. If the same destination is being reached and from that point there is no recollection, does how we act change anything?
Maybe if you took more time on thinking it through.
You certainly don´t believe that the apes we once were used to phone each other up with cell phones and arrange for baby sitting before going on holiday with their 16 valve-engine automobile, right? Obviously the way of acting does change something.
The value of life is its expanding diversity.
And the value of a species like ours as a thinking one is its progress of ratio. A forthcoming achieved by questioning, learning, exchanging and passing on from generation to generation towards objectivity and reason.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ArtZumer
Also I think there can be reason without empathy, simply because of self survival will promote reason.
The second part of the sentence makes sense ( and it has a beauty in there, hasn´t it); unlike the first part.
You cannot come to reason on your own. For, it needs many generation´s accumulated empirics and conlusions to provide the basics for reasoning. Your fellows, not to mention ancestors´, insights however you cannot receive without being empathical first. As for an egocentric solitary the boundary wouldn´t be there to start with.
Reason leads to empathy and vice versa.
Ruphus
PS:
Came to see a censored version of the video in German TV-news two days ago. It left me wrecked, and I´m having a hard time getting it out of my head. How the hell are yet the poor parents supposed to get through if they see this video?
Eventhough no new insight on inhumanity, it leaves you fathomless how retarded people actually can become.
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Date Oct. 22 2011 13:31:51
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