go bar deck vs. clamps

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paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

go bar deck vs. clamps

Finally, made some minor progress on build 1. It's been stuck behind my sons dresser for some time now.

I'm ready to start bracing the top.

Here's my question: Go Bar Deck or Clamps - which do you like better?

Seems like a with a go bar deck you can do all the bracing at one time, while clamping would require several days (not enough clamps or space). Also, with go bars you'd keep the dishing constant while all the bracing is done, while clamps would come off and on as they are moved around and the dishing would be relaxed then reapplied.

Hope this isn't a religious debate :)

your thoughts?

thanks

Troutie

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2011 20:23:07

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

thing with clamps is that you wont be able to press the top into your dished workboard.
there for they use go-bar decks.
My first blanca has a completely flat top, I used small clamps and a flat surface to glue the braces.

why would clamping take several days? if you use titebond and have a proper glue joint 1 hour clamping time is more than enough.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2011 21:42:41

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Yes this IS a religious debate.
My first few guitars (not flamenco) were built using clamps
Now I do almost everything on the box with go bars, -top bracing, back bracing, top and back gluing to rims.
My Go bar system is just a well braced shelf about 850mm above my workbench and a selection of about 15mmx3.5mm hardwood, with different lengths for bracing or assembly, and radius dish or solera as appropriate.
I find this easy, and effective and the speed is great when working with HHG.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2011 21:43:18

Steve Wright

Posts: 120
Joined: May 11 2011
From: Scotland Fife UK

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Well, back in the days of Constantine when the early Christian were behind bars, they re-used the bars and they became known as the "Go Bar Deck" and even though it took them over a thousand years to get near to building what we call a guitar, the go bar deck has always been the superior system.

Those Christian's, first they invent the Bible and next the Go Bar Deck. What ever next. Anyway, I don't want to go on - otherwise this will become one of those religious debates. Hey, isn't Go Bar a chocolate. I like chocolate.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2011 21:45:48

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I like home cooked food. So I cooked this one which is of a very old Spanish receipe:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/2011/08/bracing-backs.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2011 8:04:03

Steve Wright

Posts: 120
Joined: May 11 2011
From: Scotland Fife UK

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I like home cooked food.

Nice one Anders. My wife is letting me cook as she's down with pneumonia. I wonder if she would appreciate this recipe. Na. I can hear her in the background "not another piece of equipment" (and I don't even build guitars)

Hope your day has been a nice one of sorts with moments to cherish.

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Rhythm, grace & passion. El ritmo, gracia & la pasión
Be the change you want to see in this world - Gandhi

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2011 22:03:32

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to Steve Wright)

Hi

On the basis of the posts here I made a Go-bar deck and have found it a real pleasure to use so far.

Jeff, would you even use it to glue the bridge in place once the whole box has been glued? I will have enough control as I use the same design as Anders' serving above so I will be able to raise the top platform high enough to use my fibreglass go-bars.

Would the top be too fragile to use this method? Even with some support underneath? That aside it seems a great opportunity. I will make some deep throated clamps otherwise.

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2012 14:33:40

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

quote:

Hi

On the basis of the posts here I made a Go-bar deck and have found it a real pleasure to use so far.

Jeff, would you even use it to glue the bridge in place once the whole box has been glued? I will have enough control as I use the same design as Anders' serving above so I will be able to raise the top platform high enough to use my fibreglass go-bars.

Would the top be too fragile to use this method? Even with some support underneath? That aside it seems a great opportunity. I will make some deep throated clamps otherwise.

Thanks.

I have used go bars to glue on bridges in the past, using an internal prop.
I would not recommend it, too dangerous if one slips.
I now use vacuum clamping, with Hot Hide glue for my bridges.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2012 20:05:04

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to Jeff Highland)

OK thanks. It did seem a bit risky.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2012 8:37:00

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

The last two I made I just glued the braces in by hand pressure then put a strip of wood over them and a small weight, hour later took the weight off and continued building. I usually use clamps or a go bar deck. I used to have one which had 3' long bars that hit the ceiling over my bench, it was pretty funny. Clamps work fine too.

But don't under estimate the power of hide glue. Try gluing it with hand pressure on a hunk of scrap. It's interesting and educational to see how the glue gets an almost instant purchase on the wood. Even if you use go bars or clamps in the end hand pressure can do the job. I held the fan brace on the top for less than two minutes and then pressed the next one on. Then went back and cleaned the glue squeeze out.

Really just an experiment to see the limits of what glue an do. What I learned is you need less clamping time and pressure than you think. Squeeze two small blocks of hide glued wood together with your fingers and try to break them apart the next day....

But in the end go bars are the fastest route if you want to clamp and move on to something else, in my religious opinion.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2012 14:56:22

jlneng

Posts: 118
Joined: Jun. 28 2009

RE: go bar deck vs. clamps (in reply to estebanana)

Hello all,
As I use LMI white glue in lieu of hot hide glue, I have to leave the work piece clamped for awhile. I dome the tops on my flamenco guitars about 2.5 mm. When I used to use weights, I never quite got the 2.5 mm. With the go bars, I don't have to worry about the top rebounding while the glueis hardening. One thing to be aware of is to not use so much force that you imprint the top with the braces. I also found that the go bars, when used with a radius dish, work great for bracing the back. I just finished gluing the seven fan braces on a flamenco today. It took me about an hour....measure three times, cut once......
John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2012 18:39:08

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Caution (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I highly recommend using a go-bar deck for fan bracing, for reasons mentioned. Three words of caution: wear safety glasses. I use oak go-bars that have no rubber tips, and once or twice some have slipped and gone flying. And then there was the time a large binding rubber band broke and gave me a black eye....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 5 2012 14:27:18