Practicing flamenco on a silent guitar

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mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

Practicing flamenco on a silent guitar

I'm getting very frustrated with my neighbours when practicing at home (I have neighbours living above,below and to both sides of my single room apartment) . I'm thinking of getting myself a used yamaha silent guitar. As things are now, I just can't practice all the hours I would want to.. the question is, would practicing on a yamaha SG cause potential bad habits because of its construction? Anyone tried practicing say, rasgueado on one of those?

I know the trick of using foam to dampen the strings etc, but it just doesn't cut it for me.. i want the notes to sound, though quietly. I also like to sit up late and do transcribing etc, for this use I would think the yammy would do.. but if it could be used for serious practice that would of course make a purchase much more worth while. Is it a good idea.. what alternatives are there?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 16:59:54

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

I really want to know how can i do this too, cause i have the same problem. Practice but i want to hear the notes...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 17:03:16

Guest

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

The yamaha has a fairly thin neck like a steel string, a bit wider, not remotely the feel of a flamenco guitar. but sounds ok with the b band [ i owned one]
the aria has a more 'realistic' feeling neck but sounds pretty bad with headphones. [ i owned one of these as well]
golpes are difficult on both unless you somehow attach something underneath the strings to get the right action.

my solution in the end
a cheap classical. valencia comes to mind.[ just find something with a relatively playable neck. file the saddle and bridge. fill, jam and stuff full of foam/pillows/washing

or anything that will dramatically decrease it's poor acoustic tone.
cover sound hole underneath with cardboard to keep the foam in.
if needed glue some ply where you will play golpe.
an viola an $80 silent guitar....ugly but then again so are the silent guitars.
huge savings for something you really need....

the idea came from reading an old pat metheny interview describing how he practiced in the dorms at college.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 17:27:06

nospoonboy

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 26 2011

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

The school I teach at has two guitar labs that are equipped with these guitars. I played a few of them and it felt like I was playing on a piece of plastic...(one step up from a guitar hero set up...)

Not to mention those Yamaha guitars aren't cheap. However, if you are really having issues you may try putting some material (a soft shirt or fabric) in the soundhole of your guitar. This will dampen the sound, still allow you to play, and not cause such a problem for your neighbors.

Dampening the strings are not going to be as effective as stuffing the soundhole...but the thought of this makes me think of the gimp from Pulp Fiction...poor guitar :-(

Good Luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 17:30:28

nospoonboy

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 26 2011

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Guest)

Hey we came up pretty much the same solution... :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 17:32:01

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Guest)

Great idea of saving $500 there. You can get foam in cans from hardware stores for filling gaps in walls. Its a bit like shaving foam except it expands 100 times and forms a rigid honeycomb. Its got the added advantage of not adding as much weight as material would. As you say it might be worth trying on a 50 dollar chinese guitar ....and will also turn the guitar into a life preserver if you are playing near a lake!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 17:35:22

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Pimientito)

This foam / floating device idea sounds viable, if it dampens the vibrations enough. The problem with cloth is that, at sufficient damping, the guitar becomes heavy as a pile of bricks!

I wonder how far one could get by purposely sabotaging the guitar by drilling, or bracing with the purpose of muting vibrations instead of assisting them.

I guess the problem here would be that the sound would most likely turn so ugly that you wouldn't feel like picking it up..

... this is a real problem for me though. when practicing with full sound at home, i end up with a lot of tension in my hands

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 18:06:42

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlVal
The yamaha has a fairly thin neck like a steel string, a bit wider, not remotely the feel of a flamenco guitar.

There's a new model out, the SLG130NW which has a traditional 52mm wide neck and a "pick guard" which doubles as a tap surface for golpes.

But it's not cheap at $630.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 11 2011 19:19:35

Guest

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

quote:

sound would most likely turn so ugly that you wouldn't feel like picking it up..

well the silent guitar has the same effect...

but good to know that yamaha have made the adjustment in the neck.....
if you have money to burn or play different styles maybe the yamaha is an option...but basically prefer my chinese brick...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2011 2:21:25

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

I've got a Yamaha and I love it. It's not completely silent. The feel is, obviously, very different. I never use the pick-up. I tend to leave a capo on 4 (if you get one, make sure you get the wide neck). Personally, I don't see a downside with these guitars, but you have to try 'em for yourself. I do see a downside with trying to practice, say, rasgueados, whilst feeling inhibited about the amount of 'noise' you are making... Good luck.

Changue

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2011 7:28:10

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to GuitarVlog)

That looks like the one I've been eyeballing. I don't know what the number means.. there's one for sale thats a 120 NW.. i was thinking of placing an offer.

Today I picked up my old 'quiles' flamenca, stuffed it with airfilled plastick bags, the kind that you get if you order something fragile.. quite effective! and there is virtually no change in weight. i would say that with this set up I can practice as much as i want until 21:00.. if the yammy would be more silent than this, and allow me to practice until 23:00 that would perhaps be worth a few bucks. my airbag filled guitar has very muted basses, but the trebles still have quite some power.. funny. All the usual positives are suddenly negative!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2011 16:56:51

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

Small Update. I added a thin kitchen towel to fill up the last space at the soundhole, the rest of the guitar volume is filled with air-cushions. Wow this works very well, and it actually sounds decent (for its intended use of course).. it's slightly louder than my electric guitar unplugged, but with this I can practice rasgueado and picado without frying my nerves

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2011 20:26:03

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

I have the same problem with neighbors late at night. This little device works pretty well.

http://www.stringsbymail.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_reviews_info&products_id=5806&reviews_id=54

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2011 3:04:08

Vahid

Posts: 1
Joined: Nov. 4 2016

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

Guys. I just want to appreciate all your advice. I was so depressed because my neighbors warned me about the noise and I was wonder how to solve this problem. now I found some solutions.
thanks a lot.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2016 11:07:51

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Vahid)

I just chopped a foam washingup sponge and squash it up near the he bridge. Very inexpensive solution.

But who called me the other day at midnight when I was singing the same Alegria for the 50th time? Will have to try a sponge in the mouth as the witching hour approaches.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2016 11:26:18

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Dudnote)

Or you could just practice singing in your head

.
I remember Tommy Emmanuel saying that a lot of times he just composed on the train or in the plane and that he could just visualize where his hands would have to go to play the music he was imagining. Definitely a skill worth cultivating.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2016 6:35:25

Tap_Tap

Posts: 10
Joined: Aug. 6 2016

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

I am also a late night sponge user. works great unless things get really percussve

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2016 19:17:37

kjnouri

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 8 2016

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Tap_Tap)

An old school solution that I use from one of the greats:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2016 20:16:00

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

After seeing this I put a perspex golpeador on mine, works pretty well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2016 8:39:51

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to kjnouri)

The towel is definitely a classier option than the rolled-up toilet paper I use for the same effect

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2016 9:02:48

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Piwin)

Why not just use an electric guitar un plugged?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2016 15:37:47

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Blondie#2)

quote:

After seeing this I put a perspex golpeador on mine, works pretty well.

I use a similar set up. The string spacing and action is different from my main guitar and the string feel is very stiff. But it feels more natural than using a towel or socks or whatever.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2016 19:34:20

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to mrMagenta)

I have the Yamaha silent one with a custom plate I put on myself. It velcros on so its really portable.

It has a thinner neck and shorter fretboard length to my other guitars so it is a bit deceptively easy to play some stuff. Also you tend to hold it differently which is probably not a great thing.

It is definitely quieter than my other a guitar with a towel or whatever. I can play it with someone in the next door room and rarely get told to be quiet, but with a sponge towel option a guitar sounds pretty loud and percussive.

Anyone remember this one that Paco had made. I would love to try it.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=77736&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#77736

Ideally I would like something like this with a full sized neck that detaches so you could pack it down take it on holiday etc.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2016 21:37:25

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Practicing flamenco on a silent ... (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante
Why not just use an electric guitar un plugged?

And if you went for the Guiness Book of Records prestigeous "most sound ports on a flamenco guitar" award - how much volume would be left in it then with just a skeleton of a body + a gulpedor in place? It would at least be the right shape, not to mention nice n light.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
Or you could just practice singing in your head .
I remember Tommy Emmanuel saying that a lot of times he just composed on the train or in the plane and that he could just visualize where his hands would have to go to play the music he was imagining. Definitely a skill worth cultivating.

Nice Piwin, so you got that Living On A Prayer transposed to an Andalucian cadence, the rhythm of Sevillanas and lyrics of Copains d'Abord clear in you head yet?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2016 2:44:06