O. Herrero books

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O. Herrero books

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O. Herrero books

Can someone please give me an opinion on the books by Oscar Herrero “21 studies”-basic level and “24studies” –intermediate level?
I have the Juan Martin’s books and also Paco Peña’s; perhaps the material covered by the studies is already present here.
Thank you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2005 15:58:55

Ramin

Posts: 103
Joined: Mar. 15 2005
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Guest)

I have found that it is nearly impossible to find a "stand alone" music instruction book. The best approach, in my opinion, is to have a collection of these books (within reason) and learn bits and pieces from each one. I'm sure Herrero has covered some of the material in Pena & Martin books, but I can guarantee that he has some useful material which is unique to his style of teaching/playing.
The best advice I can give you regarding books, however, is that you should buy ones that come with CDs or DVDs to help you learn faster.
Hope this helps!

Ramin

_____________________________

What we are today comes from out thoughts of yesterday and our present thoughts build our life tomorrow: our life is the creation of our mind.
-Buddha

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2005 19:00:03

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Guest)

I'm not familiar with Paco Pena's books. I do have Juan Martins as well as others. They all cover the same basic techniques but do it differently.

The nice things about Herrero's etudes is that they play like a real composition and are not just a synthetic excersize, which make it fun to play.

Otherwise I would concur with Ramin's advice, anything with a CD or DVD is better. I would add that anything that has the pieces recorded in full speed as well as slower is even better.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2005 22:30:50

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Guest)

I found Oscar on a web hunt, got his Paso a Paso #1. Then #2. Then #3, Now I'm on Solea' #1. I truly liked #3, where every drill and study was incorporated into a little Buleria OH had written. Very nice stuff, and THESE DVD's help set a foundation for understanding his books (still tough!)

When one of my visiting flamenco instructors from Spain came back for a tour, I was 'warming up'. One of the other students was there, and the last time I saw him was 6 months before, at the last class.

He said; "Wow! Someone's been practicing!" (actually, no more than before, but I was l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g).

Although I 'played', without (weekly or so) proper instruction, it's hard to focus and improve. I went back to basics with OH, and there have been dramatic improvements in my ability - so much so, that I am now able to play for dancers a bit. I cannot tell you how cool it is to do this!!!

What I AM seeking is a course dedicated to compas as it relates to singers and dancers, as that's where we're all headed, but the OH method is one of the very best for technique. Someone on one of these posts recommended a course, Merengue de Cordoba, but it's like $120 bucks!), so I'll look into that a bit later unless I can find one to borrow and see if I like it.

As far as the books, with and without a CD? Even though I am familiar with his style and composition, books are STILL hard unless you are really good. I wished he would do for his books as he does for his Paso a Paso series. A DVD you watch, plays the piece at speed, then breaks the piece down into sections, slowly and clearly played. Even better, a split-screen, right and left hand...

The KEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I cannot stress this enough, to good playing is to play s-l-o-w-l-y at first, until the piece picks up speed, almost on it's own, as your skill and familiarity progress. This is why a slowed down piece on DVD is so nice. You're more able to match the speed of that version, can take it section by section, and understand how it sounds slowed down, as many pieces sound quite different when they're not played 'at speed'.

Oscar is WELL worth it, but I would do a DVD course before I plunged into the books - unless you're quite good and can easily take printed matter to magic.

eBay has good deals. Look for 'drawbridge music' as a seller. He's fast, 100% on it, and generally sells for a worthwhile discount off of retail, unless you find someone selling used.

Hope this helps!

R

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2005 15:23:28

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Ramón)

Ramon;

Good advice. You have to learn the basic techniques before you venture out into the various palos.

During my flamenco experience I have learned that there are many correct techniques that apply to flamenco guitar. Over the years I have had teachers attempt to correct my technique that I was taught when I was a teenager. Talk about battles!

Words I heard from many teachers: “No. That is not correct! You must do it my way! You have to relearn all your techniques”! I had decided long ago that I was not going to please every teacher I had by relearning basic techniques the way they wanted!

Look at the history of flamenco guitar in Spain! Until recently there was little communication and people that learned and played flamenco guitar did so by emulating the sound they wanted or had heard. So there was more than one technique that was “correct”.

In conversations with Juan Serrano, Juan verified my thoughts on this subject. I asked Juan where he had learned the rasgueados that he is famous for. He replied, “My father taught me”!

When the Oscar Herrero material was introduced I was one of the first to buy it. I truly enjoyed the videos and the technique Oscar used. Why? Because it was the same techniques that I use! I laughed so hard at the realization that something I had learned in the 1950’s was being used today by another person. My thoughts immediately went to all those lovely teachers I had that wanted me to be copies of themselves. I could only smile!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2005 16:43:01

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

quote:

Words I heard from many teachers: “No. That is not correct! You must do it my way! You have to relearn all your techniques”! I had decided long ago that I was not going to please every teacher I had by relearning basic techniques the way they wanted!

I think Tom has said a very important thing here.
Going to a teacher is a very important thing.
Almost the same as going to a Doctor.
You need some trust between you.

The bad point about a student/teacher relationship is that the teacher can only show you how he does it.
Memories of a time when I was young and stupid (instead of being old and stupid

) when I asked Paco Peña during a lesson, "How does Paco de Lucia do that really fast picado?"
He said" I've absolutely no idea... ask him....I can only show you how I play.."
(Makes sense though...doesn't it, really?

)

Actually, Rafael in Oxford was a lot cooler guy...
I'd recommend him to any student.
He's not cheap, but he's good.

He's of a much younger generation and in tune with the modern Flamenco style.
He's a guy who is not dictatorial, but says, "just get the sound out in any way you feel happy with....the bits I can help you with or are doing wrongly, then I'll give you some tuition in. "

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2005 21:31:37

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

when I asked Paco Peña during a lesson, "How does Paco de Lucia do that really fast picado?"

Hi Ron

Did you study with Paco Pena?

Wow, sounds great.
What was it like?
I have heard he is a really nice bloke to learn with, so i was told by a Spanish guy in London. Is this true?

As for teachers forcing their way of playing onto their pupils! It is rubbish, When i teach, if a pupil has his own way of doing a Rasguado and it works for him, then so be it. Who am i to tell them to do it my way! So many flamenco guitarists have been taught by their fathers, to do it in various ways and it works great for them.

Diversity is the beauty of the Art Flamenco, each family has its own way of playing, and that is the beauty of it!!

If we all went throught the classical guitar grading system, Do yoiu know what we would end up with? A load of Guitarists playing the same stuff !!!! How boring is that!!!

And that is where flamenco is strong and diverse, each family has its own technique that produces its own sound, and hence no two guitarists sound the same.

How can a GOOD flamenco guitar teacher say to his/her pupil this is how it is done and that is the only way? He would be producing clones of himself! Yuk!! double Yuk!!!!

I love it when a pupil comes to me with his own method of playing flamenco, it is so refreshing, and a change from the pupil struggling to play like Paco de Lucia, Vincente Amigo etc.... Only PDL can play like PDL, like i said it is otherwise just a poor imitation of PDL or whoever!

What is easy for him is not always easy for us. And what is easy for us is not always easy for him!

I wish that we as strugglin guitarists would realise this, we each have a voice, and we ought to make the most of it. That is where pdl was strong. He had his own voice and that was what made his music so special. And it is up to the individual guitarist to realise this.....(self Belief)
I have spent so much time listening and trying to play like others, and i know it is a waste of time!

I have waffled on far too long and said far too much!!!

Oh well, at least i dont pretend to be who i am not!

Cheers Grant

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2005 1:11:08

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: O. Herrero books (in reply to musicalgrant)

quote:

Did you study with Paco Pena?

LOL! No such luck Grant.
At the beginning of his career he came up to Scotland quite a lot.
Some of the venues were quite small and sometimes I was the only Flamenco guitar enthusiast/player hanging around at the end to speak with him, so he kind of got to recognise me.
He came up for quite a long run at the Edinburgh Festival once and knowing my enthusiasm and lack of any teachers very kindly offered to show me some basics and stuff.
He's a nice guy, very intelligent with lots of drive. He's very direct and doesn't suffer fools gladly though. (As I found out LOL!)
It was quite amazing to hear him play complete pieces in his hotel room and to be able to see the technique close-up.
The biggest lesson I learned was that there are no "secrets"....it's all about hard work!

Jim Opfer has been to Paco's school in Cordoba for a full 2 week course (and was once sitting in the patio of Paco's house when Vincente Amigo dropped by....!!)
He should be able to tell you about his teaching method better than me.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2005 8:28:41

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: O. Herrero books - ON SALE (in reply to Guest)

I just got a great deal on Herrero's Alegrias DVD, and the guy told me his site also has OH's DVD's on sale at 20% off.

http://www.guitargallerymusic.com/newsearch.html?do=bbq&department=DVD&instrument=Flamenco%20Instruction&cust_id=1116450567_63_199_246_134

I hope what I'm doing isn't considered spam. Just passing along a great deal for those interested.

R

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2005 20:55:17