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Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: more work for lawyers   You are logged in as Guest
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Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: more wo... 

Intellectual property, they say. Anyone using that particular headstock shape intends to create "confusion in the marketplace". Here is the news article:

http://www.wfmz.com/lehighvalleynews/28232775/detail.html

I suppose this could be counted as another "job-creation" move...for lawyers. What aspect of the guitar would you be tempted to patent?

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Peter Tsiorba
Classical-Flamenco-Guitars
tsiorba.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2011 21:10:09
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

They should patent their bracing layout and then quickly sue 80% of steel string guitar makers

I'm surprised Hermanos Conde hasn't trademarked their headstock, rosette, bracing and that special orange color...

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2011 21:38:30
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Andy Culpepper

I think this is just a reaction by Martin to a mass production in China of counterfeit Martin copies. Chinese law permits this counterfeiting.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2011 22:21:28
 
Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

I think they are doing it to possibly slow down the Chinese Martin knockoffs. They have had a big problem with that.

Ooops...orsonw you beat me to it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2011 22:26:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

Fender has a cadre of spotters and lawyers on hand to send nasty emails to those who copy Strat and Tele headstocks telling them to cease and desist or risk prosecution. I've had friends receive these emails for making copies of Telecasters.

In the Martin case it might be difficult to prove someone copied it as Martin headstocks are so bland, it's just a cut off headstock with the corners rounded.

Fender does not suffer copiers, I'm sure all it takes is a lawyer to send a little guy a letter to scare them. However if it's made off shore those folks might not stop.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2011 0:07:22
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

quote:

Martin headstocks are so bland, it's just a cut off headstock with the corners rounded.


Yeah , I dont get it how can you copyright an oblong.
copyrighting of the words on it , C F MARTIN... OK,. But if I made a guitar , cos I'm Not luthier then an oblong would be a good choice for me .......then I get sued for being lazy and unskilled !!
And since my kid drew my avatar he's in legal trouble as well......
Now if it looked like these I would be OK with that.......



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2011 10:12:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

There is an early Thomas Humphreys six string guitar in San Francisco that was made in the 1960's. The owner knew Humphreys and bought the guitar from him. Only one thing, the guy who bought it insisted that the guitar by made with a Martin style headstock.


I can't remember why the owner wanted it that way; he brought that guitar to a classical guitar society meeting a few years ago and passed it around and asked based on the headstock who made this guitar? Everyone, including me, just shrugged their shoulders. It was revealed that the owner, who was the original buyer back in the 60's, asked Humphreys to changes the headstock from the one he had been using, his own design, to a Martin headstock. He said Humpie (he called him that)got super pissed off and took the thing over to the band saw and sawed the "crown" off the headstock leaving it that simplistic Martin style dead end. ( Which if it were not so damned boring one could argue has a spare Shaker kind of elegance.)

Eventually says the owner of the chopped Humpie, Hump himself got over it, they were friends after all. But Humphreys did say to him one day that it really taught him a lesson in humility to have to cut of his signature vis a vis the headstock design which helps signify the authorship of a guitar. However the owner of the guitar said he wondered what he would have been like without him insisting that Humpie do the head chopping, mentioning that in his opinion he retained a fairly healthy ego about his guitar making.

Later I heard from Eugene Clark that he thought Thomas was a even keeled humble guy when reportedly Humphrey said to Clark: " The only reason I can work in this town (NYC) is because you moved to California." Evidently when Eugene left NY it created power vacuum in the guitar making ranks of the day. According to Mr. Hump he rushing to assume the seat. Or so it sits told, because can never trust on e of those egotist guitar makers to report on history from any other vantage point that their own. History really is simply 'his story' until lawyers get involved to try to parse out who's is history and who's is his story.



*No lawyers were harmed or given cause to invoice for billable hours due to the writing or content of this vignette.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I could give a rats arse if Fender or another large company gets copied.

"Boo hoo they stole my crappy headstock. I'm going to call my lawyer."
Fukkcign grow a pair. Or design something interesting. I have a friend who is an accomplished finger picker who is fond of saying: "Owning more than one Martin is like having a closet full of Brown wingtip shoes."

For some reason when he says that to me it makes me think of Imelda Marcos. She must have been quite the hot dish of lumpia back in the late 1950's. She was a singer before she met the future president Marcos and I often wonder if her mania for shoe collecting was born before or after they were married. I'm sure there must be a historian who has researched this topic. Somewhere in academia there is a guy or gal getting grant money to write a dissertation about the Shoe Collection of Imelda Marcos and its Effects on South East Asian Copyright Law.

I mean think about it, if you were living in a country where you could not afford as a matter of local economic conditions to purchase a real Martin guitar on your wages, or if your wife ( or you for that matter if you cross dress and play guitar) wanted a pair of Manolo Blahnik 'fukc me' pumps you would have ole' Imelda Marcos to thank for making popular many hundreds of styles of copies of those brands at affordable local prices. Really you have her to thank for looking the other way and ignoring US copyright law. Or at least she used her influence over Mr. Marcos to get him to allow these FauxMartins FakeManolos to be manufactured.

Imelda must have been a hot tamale when she was young. On another personal note, I think my fascination with the image of the younger Imelda imprinted on me and caused me to have an unusually strong desire to chase a certain Bay Area flamenco dancer who happens to be of Philippine heritage. Or perhaps I'm a shoe fetishist who specializes in flamenco shoes, which my dancer friend has a closet full of. But I'm quite sure that our stunning and beautiful dancer here ( l'm talking about her baile too, not just her feet and shoes.) only purchases real flamenco shoes from Spain.

There is after all a distinct difference between being Imelda and wanting to be like Imelda. And there is a lesson in there somewhere, but I decline to spell it out in an overt way. If Imelda owned only one pair of shoes you can bet it was an original brand pair, not a knock off. And one would like to think that Mr. Marcos, God rest his crooked soul, did not screw his people out of billions of dollars in vain. The horror, the horror to think he stuffed a Swiss bank account full of cash so that tweety sexy girl soprano Imelda would buy falsely authored foot wear.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2011 17:08:21
 
Steve Wright

Posts: 120
Joined: May 11 2011
From: Scotland Fife UK

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

The owner knew Humphreys and bought the guitar from him. Only one thing, the guy insisted that the guitar was made with a Martin style headstock.


I wonder if this is partly responsible for Thomas Humphrey giving C.F. Martin his Millennium design which is labeled as a C1-R? I have this guitar and love this design with the tapered neck to the body - or should I say, the tapered body to the neck? I think Fender, Martin and all the big names are big enough to just let the "Hands on Luthiers" do their own thing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 26 2011 23:07:22
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Steve Wright

quote:

I think Fender, Martin and all the big names are big enough to just let the "Hands on Luthiers" do their own thing.


No, Fender is pretty aggressive about squelching anyone and everyone who encroaches too closely on their designs. They send what are called "nastygrams" to people who they feel are making guitars too close to their own. Martin has historically been much cooler than Fender.

As for Humphrey selling his design to Martin I doubt this had anything to do with it as he had not invented the Millineum concept when this took place. This headstock chopping took place a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when he was making his first instruments. It might even had to do with the the guy to bought the guitar wanting it to fit in certain case. It think it's coincidence that he later worked out a deal with Martin.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 27 2011 21:34:40
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Headstock Shape TRADEMARKED: mor... (in reply to Peter Tsiorba

Mostly I was hoping people would comment on the Imelda Marcos riffing, but alas you're not that game.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 27 2011 21:37:00
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