santuario paco pena question

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rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

santuario paco pena question

in this sole, in what is I guess the first falseta, there is a scale kind of run thing with pull offs, it mentions in the tab keepingthe ring finger (left hand) while playing the accompanying notes. I can play it just dandy without placing that finger, but when I try obviously i dont have the finger dexterity in the little finger for the pulls offs across three frets. Question. does anyone else have this problem and is this a standard in flamenco or is it just some little embellishment that only paco can pull off?is it worth developing the techniques as I have never seen it used quite like that before. I can do a lot of different pull off etc with that type of chording but guys this is a little much comments if you pls.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2005 23:30:10

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

I think it sounds better when you leave fingers down, and you get that semi-dissonant sound of the notes overlapping. Of course it does make it harder, but it's part of the sound, in my opinion. You can do it, and working slowly and consistently on this type of thing will help your left hand immensely!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2005 0:28:53

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hi

I agree with Miguel here, and once you manage this one, you see you need it more.

Peter

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2005 8:03:01

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to gerundino63)

Like the guys said...

Haven't got the book in front of me, but I think I rember the bit you mean. Its standard Solea stuff, and yes you need that bass note held there. It gives you a bass drone and helps that nice dissonance as mike says, where the held note helps everything kind of crash into each it other. So work that pinky!

Also, pay attention to when that bass note is played - hear that separation between it and the notes on top, the bass note coming slghtly early? Thats a very typical flamenco thing, you will hear it all the time.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2005 8:19:36

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

I'm glad you mentioned that, it does makes some sense, but I dont hear it on the gp tab and the way it is written is appears to be a double stop, but if that is true I will practice it like that and yes the pinky is getting a workout!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2005 11:46:52

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

I had a lot of trouble hammering and pulling off with alternate fingers while a finger in between the ones being used was planted. Eg: first and third finger hammering and pulling off while second finger is planted in something like the opening of a taranta. I don't know why, but for some reason my hand would just tense up completely. Yet, oddly enough, no problem with first and fourth finger while second and/or third finger planted. I was only able to get things working by practising it VERY slowly for a long time. It took (and is still taking me) about a year to get anywhere with it.

I seem to learn the techniques a little backwards. Like learning the more complicated rasgueados first and finding the "easier" ones very difficult (still do), a clean tremolo but struggling with double arpeggios......I dunno....just backwards.

I've all too often been in a hurry to work my way through a piece. It wasn't until I really started to force myself to slow down and be patient (at the best of times I have no patience) that I actually started to improve.

I have no discipline

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2005 14:03:05

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

One thing that I am finding useful for hammer-ons, especially the ones complicated because you are holding down other fingers or (dios mio!) a barre, is something I learned from CGer Eduardo Fernandez' book. An experiment:

Hold your left hand out flat, palm down. Now flip it palm up quickly and lightly, paying attention to your forearm muscle near your elbow. If you are very perceptive and loose, you will detect the tiniest of sensation in this area. This sensation is almost identical to that of a good, loose, quick hammer on. If you can use your imagination and "use the sensation" to play the hammer on, you will find your hammers to be light, quick, effortless, and with that satisfying 'thwack".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2005 14:33:16

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

thanks for all the good advice I'll be trying to put it together. And I do agree in the time matter. I have been playing recuerdos for about 5 yrs and now just starting to get it togethor in some meaningful sound form. Funny because I can play a 4 stroke flamenco tremelo a lot easier. Years ago I played a lot of electric and the hand positons are different and the pull offs certainly different because of the electronics and I think easier. I am still trying to put togethor pull offs on the acoustic so that is certainly part of the problem. Most pull offs in electronic music, even stuff like Hendrix is not as far reaching. tahnks again

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2005 16:15:28

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: santuario paco pena question (in reply to rickm)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gtrr66@msn.com
Years ago I played a lot of electric and the hand positons are different and the pull offs certainly different because of the electronics and I think easier. I am still trying to put togethor pull offs on the acoustic so that is certainly part of the problem.

Yes, this stuff is MUCH easier on an electric - effortless, really. How many eighties guitarists with long hair made whole careers out of widdling away with endless pull offs/hammer ons?

Anyway, to get a good pull off (..err can we use 'descending slur', thats a killer double entendre

) try and see it as a rest stroke pluck with your left hand. Make sense? Practice them without the right hand playing at all. So if you were 'pulling off' from your third finger to your first, place both fingers down, and 'pluck' that third finger so that it comes to rest on the adjacent string.

Practice this and your slurs will have plenty of snap. A tiny swivel of the forearm - almost a twitch (which is what I think Mike is talking about) - helps put some wallop into slurs to.

Scott Tenant explains this stuff neatly in Pumping nylon and includes his killer 'triplet slurs' warm up exercise which he reckons is probably the most important exercise in the whole book.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2005 8:19:33