Gitanos and seafaring

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edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

Gitanos and seafaring

I recently started thinking about the fact that no cantes/letras seem to deal with seafaring, fishing etc. There're plenty of letras about jail, mining, agriculture, war, emigration... why none about boats, the sea, navigation etc.?
Perhaps this has to do with the socio-cultural background of the Gitanos and of flamenco.

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 16:29:56

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

Its not very gitano to get wet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 16:32:44

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

that and they probably dont know how to build boats

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 17:16:29

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

In Alegrias (de Cai) from time to time the letras refers to the sea (soy marinero, en alta mar, mi barquita de color...). It's not something specific like the mine work but the evocation of the sea is present! (as the Napoleon Bonaparte episode and the french invasion).
Alegria is a patriotic cante IMO (sometime)...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 18:03:59

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

.. hmm
I hear a lot of 'cinco barcos', 'soy marinero', taking boats to china etc.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 20:07:55

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

I have no reference to back this up but I think its because historically, being sent to sea was a punishment for gitanos.
Its been traditional to work in forges, mines, agriculture, tailoring and music for gypsies. After the fall of Granada in 1492 one of the punishments for gitanos was to be sent to a galley of a ship, from where it was unlikely you would return. Since the journey of gypsies from northern Pakistan through Europe was overland it makes sense that there is not a repertoire of sea faring songs.

As a side note the opposite is true of the portugese fardo. The portuguese are a great sea faring nation and many of the sad fardo songs are about sailors who never came home from the sea.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 9:49:35

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

Pim, you're probably right about the galleys. But then, the carceleras are about prison sentences, so why aren't there any "galeras" or "marineras" ?

The Portuguese fado supposedly originated in seamen's taverns, so there is a definite connection there.

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 19:30:44

PabloMadera

Posts: 6
Joined: Jul. 31 2010

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

actually there is a type of Fandango abandolao from the coast of Malaga called Jabegote that deals with sailing and fishing. It is said it comes from the fishermen of malaga (who are called "marengos"), so it's not really a "cante gitano", but it is flamenco! ;)

Some examples:

Tu quieres echarme un nudo
marinero, marinero,
tu quieres echarme un nudo
como sabes que te quiero?
a hacer la laza te ayudo

se me mojaron las velas
estando la mar en calma,
se me mojaron las velas
y fue de las puras lágrimas
que yo derramé por ella

si a mí me raja la mar
cuarentas betas afuera
por qué si estás a mi vera
yo no lo puedo aguantar
y me entra la temblanera?

El cante por jabegotes
es un cante mu marengo
el cante por jabegotes
igual que el novio que tengo
que no hay jábega que bote
que no traiga la copa lleno

and finally a youtube link

hope that answers your question ;)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2011 20:28:40

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

Thanks Pablo for the letras and information on this palo I wasn't aware of!
I still have the impression, that the Gitanos may be hydrophobic

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2011 15:41:31

veet

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: Gitanos and seafaring (in reply to edguerin)

Alegrias de cadiz. My quick non-scientific mental survey is that the great majority of alegrias letras are about mi barca marinera or navegando por la tacita de plata or capitana de mi barco, etc,etc it goes on and on. You must not listen to many alegrias.

V

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2011 21:35:20