RE: Restoring a cracked blanca

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

to your comparison with Vermeer or Rembrandt... - I don't think this would be comparable cause Bellido is not having such high status even despite of being one of the few good and respected luthiers. And I am not the one who broke the guitar to pieces, but the one who is going to assemble it back some way or the other.

My comparison to those old masters painters of your guitar was meant as hyperbole. Hyperbole means you over emphasize an aspect of an argument to make your point more salient, often to humorous ends.

You may not be the one who broke the guitar, but that does not let you off the hook. You took on the task of fixing the guitar which brings the ethical treatment of the instrument to bear on you and it is now your responsibility. But as I said, you can legally treat the instrument ignorantly if you choose.

It is in fact an apt comparison to say the Bellido you have is of equal value to the Rembrandt because you have said you want to fix it. When students are trained to to conservation work on paintings they are given minor works to learn on, but they must treat the minor work with all the regard and care that they would treat a Rembrandt or a Ribera. The reason is because if you can't fix, repair, restore, conserve and follow proper instruction then you will never understand the ethical and technical treatment of a great work of art or rare guitar.

The argument that says "It's a wrecked guitar....so I can do what I want" is not an excuse to carry out work before you research it. To use another hyperbolic comparison, if you were a doctor and you had a patient with a broken leg,you would never want to say " His leg is already broken so I will set it an cast it without being trained how to do that."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 16:44:18

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

The main point is - If I will find everything in the library and eat the entire knowledge of the world, I will have no further need to ask here and starting threads. Cause I would have found my own ways of doing it. And I firmly believe Lutherie section was originally intended for this kind of purpose.

Again you are absolutely wrong.

Once you begin to lose your amazingly huge ego, and you actually read for several days weeks or months the guitar makers you want to engage with might be able to relate to you. I keep telling you to research because so far, you don't even possess the language or terminology to have a dialog with a guitar maker. If you don't want to put in the effort to make connections by meeting halfway then go away. You need to learn how to ask questions and take advice; as I said so far you don't even have a good question and you are not familiar enough with the materials and techniques to ask which ones you should use. Until you figure that out you are only going to do harm to guitars. The first rule to understand about repair work is: First do no harm.

We, I, are not here to serve you, pander to you or be your information giving lap dogs. This is really about your ego, not mine. I'm done with you. Good luck.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 16:50:22

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

The argument that says "It's a wrecked guitar....so I can do what I want" is not an excuse to carry out work before you research it. To use another hyperbolic comparison, if you were a doctor and you had a patient with a broken leg,you would never want to say " His leg is already broken so I will set it an cast it without being trained how to do that."

Lol, you must be a doctor then, who when receiving a visit of a patient with a broken leg you will advise him to first go to the university, study medicine and then to treat his injury himself ((: It's embarrasing how you pretend that you don't understand which part of the nonsense I marked as your big Ego. Again, your reaction proves you are not mature enough to be something special, cause lack of seriousness just discredits you. Mr Knowitall.

And I actually had certain respect towards you, but that is now over simply because your self-importance. Self-importance.. has a nasty trick that uses against the person carrying it - it totally compromises him against seeing the very fact of being in the trap. Because you identify with your work so much that it does not allow you being accessible to anyone seemingly inferior or less educated in your area. I am someone, who is more???!!! And even I have not once attacked you with anything, you started attacking me like a male monkey in the monkey circus over a piece of banana... Whatever you say, hun.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 17:59:29

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.)

Absolutely WRONG, MSA my friend,

I, (along with my amazing ego) have to tell you that what you are doing is the equivalent of going on to a Vintage Car Enthusiasts Forum and saying...

" Hey Guys,

I just bought this wrecked E-Type Jaguar from the 60's. It's in bad shape.
I'm not a mechanic or an enthusiast, don't know anything about engines or car stuff and I don't have any tools or mechanics handbooks, but I'd like to get this car working and looking like new.

Any hints on how to fix it?

Thanks in advance."

THAT is why no Luthiers are taking you up except for Stephen, a very experienced Luthier, who was kind enough to point out your error of thinking.

You are a "Kwik-Fix Charlie".

You just want a "quick fix" solution for a wrecked guitar you bought at a fraction of the price of a proper one, without any real effort, just some magic hints and tips, as if the world of guitar building was just really a bunch of know-how secrets and no more.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 18:31:12

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

Can you say Maaaaaahverick?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 19:05:04

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to Ron.M)

Nope.
I was curious about the responses and views on the matter, Ron. I can't say I would be desperate so much to only depend on the luthiers here on foro what they have to say. I was only shocked with this attitude that I just didn't expect from somebody like him, cause making shoulders on some nobody like me is an act of covardness and it takes a real covard to have guts to do that with a good conscience.

I am in no way going to destroy the instrument or in any way do any irreversible changes whatsoever as I told before. So anxiety of Mr. Faulk is totally impertinent and has no relevance to me. When stressed in every post I am no longer wiling to tolerate these provocations. I am a no hassle guy believe it or not, you all are free to believe what you want, but my intentions to post were transparent, well meant and honest and I believe I didn't give a single reason to you or any of the non-participating guitar makers here to interprete my posts as insultive, attacking, or otherwise offensive. Therefore, I was not aware I will be considered as threat to this seemingly nice community. I guess I received my experience with how lively and irritable this whole egotism of immature men is, so it's not advisable to challenge some male's territory. Even for a friendly visit. lol. Sorry folks for my parable from african savanna, but I couldn't resist. I guess that I should have known it, I just keep making a mistake to not listening to the warnings of my heart and should have not tried getting to a consensus with predatory tempers. I usually believe in mutual respect - if someone gives me respect for I am giving respect also, it's just a normal expectation, that I will be treated as such.

It's just sad cause my intent was clear and honest. Whatever. ((: It's just a fun at the end. At least you feel important guys.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 19:14:36

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

Can you please go away and stop talking about me. Thanks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 19:38:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.)

OK MSA,

I'll tell you how to fix it.

1. Glue up all the cracks and fill the holes. (I use EVO Stick for general household stuff, it's good sh1t!)

2. Replace the bridge and replace the nut, so you have even string spacing.
(Better to make your own bridge from a plank of wood rather than buy one IMO... just get a good penknife and carve it out)

3. Get a bit of cypress, bend it, cut it and fit it to that ugly square hole, so that it looks part of the original guitar.

4. Sort out the neck angle.

5. Strip off the old finish and French Polish it and it will look pristine and worth ten times what you paid for it.

Bingo!!

There you go....5 easy steps.

Oh, you may need a couple of hints and tips along the way, but basically it's within the ability of anyone with a bit of DIY knowledge.

All these Luthiers just **** people, making it sound harder than it is.

So there's some positive stuff for ya MSA.

Can't accuse this Forum of not being encouraging, mate.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 19:56:38

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

Why not, good idea, I will better spend my time anywhere else than here. I feel no longer any need to participate under these circumstances. I should have known better. My fault, indeed.
But you should consider leaving my thread yourself first.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 20:22:45

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 25 2011 20:32:23

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 20:28:21

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Can you please go away and stop talking about me. Thanks.

Your Majesty, I wasn't talking about you, till you started messing around with your arrogant and highly elevated distance from us, normal people. Even then after I was referring to your blind and unconscious tendency, but this is not only your personal problem but also many many others' as well. Nothing new under the Sun.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 20:45:52

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

" Hey Guys,

I just bought this wrecked E-Type Jaguar from the 60's. It's in bad shape.
I'm not a mechanic or an enthusiast, don't know anything about engines or car stuff and I don't have any tools or mechanics handbooks, but I'd like to get this car working and looking like new.

Any hints on how to fix it?

Thanks in advance."

I bought this 1964 car and researched the hell out of it before I decided to fix it up, as it is a very early model. I could do some bits myself, like bolt on a new fuel pump, new wheels and stuff but then I spent another $12000 at the shop. It is not just restored, it is heavily modified, because that is what I wanted - in the best tradition of pony cars.

It's a very good ride now, it goes like hell and sounds like rolling thunder. It's gone up in value too, so I will get my money back one day.

I bought this 1956 camera last week. I took a lot of advice from a forum, bought some spares, did a bit myself and am now saving up to get it serviced by an expert. Cost $350, worth $800 or more when I am finished.

Do you see a pattern here? Why not practice on a cheap piece of junk, or make your own guitar?

M.S.A. - you might be a pirate but I am pulling the levers behind the curtain here

and a decent luthier of reputation is not a "normal person" like the rest of us. We pay them to make our dreams come alive.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 21:02:56

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

Dude, that is a fabulous car, we could get some chicks with that coup! :)
You picked good wheels,rims for that model.

My grandfather passed away in 1989 and I inherited his cameras a few yours later. He was an Air Force photographer and carpenter during WWII, funny thing is he worked both at the Pentagon and the Motion Picture Unit sound stage in Culver City CA.

Anyway I got his cameras a 1939 Ikon 2 1/4" and a 4x5 field camera both with top notch Zeiss lenses. I had them fixed up by this gumpy old bastard, who was the only guy in town who knew how to work on old cameras and used them when I took photography in college. Those lenses will do some things modern lenses won't do, and i certainly love those old things because they remind me of that wonderful guy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 21:43:59

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

M.S.A. - you might be a pirate but I am pulling the levers behind the curtain here and a decent luthier of reputation is not a "normal person" like the rest of us. We pay them to make our dreams come alive.

Escribano, I am not, but Mr. Faulk made me a pirate. It's a flag from your inventory. I liked it for the moment.

I like folks who do lutherie and do it well and I have my true admiration towards all of them. But when they start acting like self-appointed magalomans as Mr. Faulk then I am quickly loosing interest. I was open and nice and didn't give no one any reason to treat me as a piece of brown loaf. I had a respect towards his whatever it is what he does, but I am not interested anymore and I know it is sort of influence of this foro environment and everyone has to jump like the leader of the herd says.

But I haven't been offensive to these folks (And you can see it) and they started first. I don't really mind Ron, he is just a bored guy and likes fun, why not. He admits having nothing to say so he at least provokes every now and again. Fine.

But His majesty should have chosen a bit more sensitive approach, especially when (according to him) I am a simple guy who knows nothing. You have no idea Mr. Faulk what is my background or what everything have I already been into and what I am capable of. You have your fragmental judgment, some bits and pieces and nothing else. - The one with higher status as he is (is believed to be) should be even more cautiously walking on the surface of the Earth in order to not harm even by accident. And not puposefully humiliating somebody because of supposed lack of certain knowledge. Just arrogance, nothing else.

That's a sign of someone that is highly respected in my eyes and those arrogant everlasting displays of dominance will make me always react like this. The higher status the more carefully we have to choose our behaviour. Master should always go as an example and not prtraying himself as an alpha male in a herd...

Whatever, I am not going to interfere with no one's dreams here anymore, I am totally disgusted by how far has it gone. Escribano, your foro is not what it used to be some years ago.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 22:02:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

I got his cameras a 1939 Ikon 2 1/4" and a 4x5 field camera both with top notch Zeiss lenses

I love Zeiss. The Rolleiflex above has a Zeiss and I have a 50mm on my Leica. Those rims are Torq Thrust Ds and a classic choice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2011 22:08:46

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to Escribano)

Ron I read the original posts and he did not once say he wanted a quick fix like you are portraying that he said

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2011 2:25:16

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

CR,

You and the others need to know the back story. He wrote me at my private email address and sent me about 50 pictures of that guitar. I had to tell him to stop sending me pictures of the guitar. I had to make special folder to separate the pictures from my regular email because it was getting in my way my inbox. He sent five or six emails with 10 pictures each.

Then he was polite and asked my opinion. I said he should use hide glue and that he should go research how to use it and I would help him if I could. Then he fixed the guitar with CA glue and did a poor job. Which was in fact a quick fix because he did not want to do a few tests and learn to use hide glue. Then he back talked me and argued about it when I said he should go learn more.

Seems like a quick fixing arguer to me. My apprentice read the posts to and came to the conclusion I was helpful and kept a good tone. I gave him an opinion on how to deal with the Fishman hole and I will admit I got mildy snarky on him, but only after he gave me attitude about telling him he needed to do research.

My apprentice does not give me a hard time when I ask him to research something. He is self motivated and always comes prepared. In fact he is over prepared and that is why he's here. He's fantastically talented, the only thing I have to do with him is slow him down enough to observe in detail. He figures the rest out on his own and then brings it to me to talk about. There's such a thing as a good teacher and a bad teacher and there are also good students and bad students. The teacher can't make you a good student unless you want to be one. And it's possible to even get something useful from a teacher you personally don't like.

I know, I know, I probably sound like every other fukchead adult.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2011 4:25:06

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

I had to tell him to stop sending me pictures of the guitar.

where have you taken this from?? When did you tell me not to send you any more photos of the guitar to you???? I kept sending the pictures from obvious reason which is that it's highly impractical to any other way examine the instrument over the atlantic.

Another thing, you haven't specified that it must be ONLY a hide glue. And to claim that I did a poor job that you actually haven't seen at all except a few low quality pictures that I posted here - it's very arrogant really. I did quite a good job since I did dry fitting first, too many times, examining how will it look and hold when it's done. I was gluing with clamps on and with my hand in the soundhole and pressing slightly on the inside I was making sure the pieces will seal perfectly as much as possible. I am using my common sense even if I wasn't born as genius woodworker. I have my technical and analytic thinking that you have no clue about so I really don't depend on external advices that much as an ordinary simple guy perhaps would. I also have read more books than you have in your entire life, so your annoying repetitive and impolite sending me to the library was not appreciated at all. If somebody will turn to me by mail and ask me about something that I would be able to help him about, I feel obliged to offer help and I will make sure he will get the most I can offer.

To my last mail you didn't even bother replying, although was longer and clarifying few more points. I haven't received any further answer so I presumed I was completely f.d up, so to speak. And which I was waiting for with some expectation... I wanted to know more about the guitar or just anything else from your professional point of view that I HAD a positive meaning about. Result was, however, just this that after being basically ignored after some brief reply from first 2 mails and that were just too general I decided to make a thread so what if someone else will come up with some interesting idea and I will learn more. Why the heck not?
Or anybody that would have a personal experience with Jose Bellido guitars or will know what's the story with the label. Or should I have gone to the post office instead, to ask about the label and Bellido's restoration practices??? More than anything I wanted to know more about the guitar as you can see, there's nothing much about JLB guitars on the net and I thought folk here is pretty knowledgeable about everything possible and always someone comes with some information that has certain relevance or at least a pointer to direction that might be helpful. But you really disapointed me. And don't try to pose as a hurt bug and that I am badmouthing you cause that is just a stupid nonsense!!! You did it to yourself when calling your teacher and benefactor in the workshop a fukcing perv... Now that is a freaking amazing expression of gratitude and makes you a sensitive and intelligent guy for anyone who reads it...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2011 5:47:01

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 26 2011 16:58:35

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2011 16:52:41

tamoio

Posts: 20
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: mostly Alaska

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana)

This thread reminds me a little of the Sudan, I alternate between wanting to laugh or cry.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2011 19:49:18