RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)

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Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to GuitarVlog)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuitarVlog

quote:

I thought there was no doubt they were not andalusian in origin ...

Perhaps they were made in Andulasia, the fantasyland country that the Disney princess in the movie "Enchanted" came from?

I enjoyed that movie more than I probably should have.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 17:14:48

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan
The AG are made in Canary Island by Spanish luthier and one assistant, (what can we tell you as the distributor of the AG guitars is that the luthier of AG is of the same quality than Arcangel I mean on the same rank or status, but the name of maker is not given , because in the past many problems came as a result of this names issue and Paco gave his recommendation for Andalusian Guitars and not for any specific individual person because of that too, in order to avoid what have already happened many times.

Nothing brutal, he did use three commas! It's a glorious run on sentence, but he left an open parenthesis......it's like sex with out an orgasm.

!! I'm glad I wasn't the only person bothered by that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yojimbo

I don't think it's right to make fun of people for whom english is obviously not their first language.

But on the other hand, doing so makes some feel superior - are you one of those?

Do the people at Andalusian Guitars speak some bizarre language which doesn't use puncutation to separate thoughts?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 17:18:44

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

quote:

Do the people at Andalusian Guitars speak some bizarre language which doesn't use puncutation to separate thoughts?

How would I know? But English is evidently not their first language.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:02:31

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

We're not.

quote:

Please close this thread

No.

Not on your say so anyway.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:09:59

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

It very well could be just Prof.Ruben's own initiative. His inglish is impeccavle also. But this is just a guess. But I can very well imagine him annoying Paco so many times to give him some written confirmation that he broke him on that and that was his foundation he built on later the whole marketing strategy. Small choleric guy is really persistent in what he does!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:16:05

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

Yojimbo, does it really mean I am making fun from somebody if I am uncompromising in my personal position toward this funny and illegitimate, deceptive guitar-making brand??? Apart from that, my reply was for rogeliocan as a reaction and identification with his statement.

My remark was in response to a post that was making fun of someone's english - I don't think that's appropriate but apparently you do based on your original reply.

That makes you a very sad person.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:16:43

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

I am not sad, I assure you Yohimbin

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:18:03

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cRobson12

MSA at least try to make a clever insult towards these guitars, everyone uses the same "Delusional Guitars", "Andelusional Guitars", and"Andalusian Guitars are made from *insert fantasy place here*". I admit it was amusing at first, but now it's just tedious and obnoxious.

Seriously guys? Just shutup. You guys are like savages in this thread, just look at how you turned on Yojimbo because he has a conde guitar and is interested in the Andalusian Guitars. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Please close this thread

You're quite right about the remarks becoming a bit tedious.

I'm starting to think this place is swarming with luthiers prepared to say almost anything about the competition.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:19:48

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

I am not sad, I assure you Yohimbin

Yohimbin - ouch. That really hurts.

By the way, there's a world of difference between being "sad" and being a "sad person". I guess you're pretty thick as well. (And I don't meet wide).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:25:28

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

You're quite right about the remarks becoming a bit tedious.

They're not. I think they're funny and so do most others here.

quote:

I'm starting to think this place is swarming with luthiers prepared to say almost anything about the competition.

Then leave.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:32:39

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

You're quite right about the remarks becoming a bit tedious.

They're not. I think they're funny and so do most others here.

quote:

I'm starting to think this place is swarming with luthiers prepared to say almost anything about the competition.

Then leave.

cheers,

Ron

That's an interesting reply.

Why would my conjecture about this place being populated by luthiers not liking the competition generate such a knee jerk reaction? Very odd. Unless of course you're a luthier and the remark hit a bit close to home.

Are you a luthier Ron? And is "Then leave" the best rebuttal you've got?

(You're right about this being a funny thread you know. I'm laughing at you right now Ron.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 18:59:13

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

I agree with Yojimbo that making fun of someone's English is not necessarily nice, but making fun of him because he may be involved in dubious marketing schemes is fine!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:00:13

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

Yojimbo, sorry for misspelling your name, it's just the similarity... My appologies.

Other than that, I am not ashamed for my possition towards deception and lies and pulling money from unaware starting guitarists and promising them quality which they will never get.

Opposing deception is a sign of a character, but playing game of politeness and praising counterfeit instruments for really unfair and too high prices just to keep ones status as a easygoing polite guy is nothing more but covardness!!!

Get it straight in your head and stop accusing others from what they are clearly not. I like the idea, that foro can give someone a good orientation and some contradictory opinions. Than it get's interesting. And remember, a counterfeit product will always have opposition.

But show me a forum, or a place on the net, where Arcangel Fernandez guitars or Manuel Reyes are criticized in so high a number! Why do you think it is so????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:01:08

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

Yojimbo, sorry for misspelling your name, it's just the similarity... My appologies.

Other than that, I am not ashamed for my possition towards deception and lies and pulling money from unaware starting guitarists and promising them quality which they will never get.

Opposing deception is a sign of a character, but playing game of politeness and praising counterfeit instruments for really unfair and too high prices just to keep ones status as a easygoing polite guy is nothing more but covardness!!!

Get it straight in your head and stop accusing others from what they are clearly not. I like the idea, that foro can give someone a good orientation and some contradictory opinions. Than it get's interesting. And remember, a counterfeit product will always have opposition.

But show me a forum, or a place on the net, where Arcangel Fernandez guitars or Manuel Reyes are criticized in so high a number! Why do you think it is so????

I haven't really objected to your views on the marketing or anyone else's for that matter. What I objected to was a post that was making fun of someone's inability to write/converse in perfect english.

Let's not put words in my mouth that aren't there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:06:16

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

What I objected to was a post that was making fun of someone's inability to write/converse in perfect english.

was it me?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:19:44

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:25:53

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

this video at 0:17

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:28:26

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.)

quote:

Get it straight in your head and stop accusing others from what they are clearly not.

wow! can't believe this

You would have written this sentence to Ron's defamatory accusation

...instead!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:33:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin)

Sorry, I sort of lost the plot a while ago. So one person (Rumbaking) claims that their $3500 "Andalusian Guitar" is better than a cheap Yamaha. Good, I can live with that.

Another (Yojimbo) thinks that we are being unfair, because we haven't tried one of these guitars and keeps banging on about it, trying to create the longest thread we have ever had on the forum?

(Won't work by the way. Ruben tried that and he still has a huge problem on the first page of Google results for "Andalusian Guitars". This will just make it worse but I will probably get another 'marketing' email from fake judge #48 of the Magisterio de Madrid quarto del distrito penal civil that I can blow out my arse.)

EDIT: missed the OP - cRobson12 likes the $1000 model. OK. I think that is it, no? DID I MISS SOMETHING?

Note: I have never moderated a thread for so long for so little, sheesh!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:37:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

I said just leave if you don't like this Forum or the biased people in it..

As a beginner, you will have no need of access to the hundreds of other Flamenco guitarists here, some profesional, with years of experience who give their time and advice here.

You've got Prof Diaz on your doorstep. "The Only Disciple of Paco de Lucia"

He'll give you all the lessons and advice you'll ever need to know, since he doesn't rate anyone here anyway. (including Grisha Goryachev).

He'll give you the best advice on buying a guitar too and if you want, will sell you one made by a Luthier of the calibre of Arcangel Fernandez at a fraction of the price and supposedly endorsed by PdL himself, (even though Paco's manager says that's complete rubbish.)

Now is that not a good deal?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:38:50

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

Why would my conjecture about this place being populated by luthiers not liking the competition generate such a knee jerk reaction? Very odd. Unless of course you're a luthier and the remark hit a bit close to home.

This is in fact a conjecture as there are no luthiers participating to this thread. I see your original sentence as trying to create a perception that 'luthiers are prepared to say anything about the competition'
This is very similar to your AG guitars trying to give the perception of instruments made in Andalucia and of quality because people are willing to pose with these no name guitars barefoot.

I don't believe any luthiers on or off this site cares much about your no-name factory guitars. What I do believe is that you are a friend of Diaz and are getting the same faith as he got in all other forums, getting kicked out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:39:00

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan)

quote:

people are willing to pose with these no name guitars barefoot.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 19:48:40

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Harry)

Everytime I notice that I recorded a video of myself playing barefoot I delete and record it again it since I know about Ruben.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 20:11:35

odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

I dont know how relevant this is but my own experience with Ruben Diaz was sort of odd, i felt as if he was trying to scam me or whatever.

It was when i was just starting out learning about flamenco and i just wrote to him, because he had this stuff everywhere on youtube and all, and the deal was that it was when i wanted to aquire a flamenco guitar that was decent.

He told me all this stuff about how Andalusian guitars where the best guitars in spain and that they were an important part of flamenco history with inovations etc.

it just got crazier and crazier imo.

he told me that he could get me a guitar for under half of the list price if he played in a friends wedding and weird stuff.

It all reminded me about how that esteban stuff went out, you know the tv commercial guy with the hat, so i chose not to get one.

so in conclusion i definatly see this guy taking advantage of people with lesser knowledge of guitars, and trying to turn them to think it is the best out there.

even if the guitars probably arent the worst and i have never tried one i think that the marketing is malicious and even harming.
it is completely different from my experiences from when i bought my navarro, in wich the salesman was truthfull about the product and history about it etc.

Now i am waiting for my second flamenco guitar from Anders and happy watching it take shape! sorry if this is non relevant but Anders is what i see as a perfect businessman and luthier, he is a guy i got a really good first impression from and doesnt try to stuff things down my throat, rather he has tried to enlighten me about things and a perfect example of pleasing business, making you feel comfortable is very important i think. sorry if this post was just stupid but its how i see things

-Jonas

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 20:30:09

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Harry)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry

I agree with Yojimbo that making fun of someone's English is not necessarily nice, but making fun of him because he may be involved in dubious marketing schemes is fine!

I think Yojimbo missed my point. The problem with that sentence wasn't that it was written in poor English - if you're struggling to learn a language, good for you for trying - but rather that it was a confusing run-on with pretty much no punctuation. You don't need to be a native English speaker to put a period in between your thoughts. Other languages have those too

Yeah, it would be mean to make fun of that person if they made some minor grammatical error that had to do with not being fluent in English. I was making fun of the fact that this person wrote a ridiculous run-on sentence, which is a no-go in most any language (and, of course, the dubious marketing schemes, which were conveniently obscured by the poor language).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 22:21:35

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yojimbo

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

I am not sad, I assure you Yohimbin

Yohimbin - ouch. That really hurts.

By the way, there's a world of difference between being "sad" and being a "sad person". I guess you're pretty thick as well. (And I don't meet wide).

Yojimbo, this is a community. We'll make fun of others but not our own. Please refrain from implying another member of the foro is unintelligent.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2011 22:23:22

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yojimbo

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

I am not sad, I assure you Yohimbin

Yohimbin - ouch. That really hurts.

By the way, there's a world of difference between being "sad" and being a "sad person". I guess you're pretty thick as well. (And I don't meet wide).

Yojimbo, this is a community. We'll make fun of others but not our own. Please refrain from implying another member of the foro is unintelligent.

Who are you? The forum's dad?

If so, you're not doing a very good job seeing as you've missed a few admonishments. Perhaps you were away practicing, but I didn't see any rebukes when others here were implying I was lying about my guitar. And neither did I see a post from you admonishing Ron for telling a new member to leave because he isn't good enough to be here because he's only a beginner.

Apparently the high moral ground you're standing on is made of quicksand.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 14 2011 0:22:17

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan

quote:

Why would my conjecture about this place being populated by luthiers not liking the competition generate such a knee jerk reaction? Very odd. Unless of course you're a luthier and the remark hit a bit close to home.

This is in fact a conjecture as there are no luthiers participating to this thread. I see your original sentence as trying to create a perception that 'luthiers are prepared to say anything about the competition'
This is very similar to your AG guitars trying to give the perception of instruments made in Andalucia and of quality because people are willing to pose with these no name guitars barefoot.

I don't believe any luthiers on or off this site cares much about your no-name factory guitars. What I do believe is that you are a friend of Diaz and are getting the same faith as he got in all other forums, getting kicked out.

Believe what you like, but they aren't "my guitars". I have no connection with either the brand or with Ruben.

What I have said is that I've now met Ruben and I like him. I've also objected to some people putting down this brand when they have nothing to base their bias on except a dislike of Ruben.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 14 2011 0:31:23

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

I said just leave if you don't like this Forum or the biased people in it..

As a beginner, you will have no need of access to the hundreds of other Flamenco guitarists here, some profesional, with years of experience who give their time and advice here.

You've got Prof Diaz on your doorstep. "The Only Disciple of Paco de Lucia"

He'll give you all the lessons and advice you'll ever need to know, since he doesn't rate anyone here anyway. (including Grisha Goryachev).

He'll give you the best advice on buying a guitar too and if you want, will sell you one made by a Luthier of the calibre of Arcangel Fernandez at a fraction of the price and supposedly endorsed by PdL himself, (even though Paco's manager says that's complete rubbish.)

Now is that not a good deal?

cheers,

Ron

Geeze Ron....

In earlier posts you've insinuated that I'm a liar (twice I think) and then told me to leave (although I don't understand your thinking there). Now it seems like you're telling me to leave again but this time it's because I'm not skillful enough to be here - is that right?

I think you're losing it Ron.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 14 2011 0:37:32

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

neither did I see a post from you admonishing Ron for telling a new member to leave because he isn't good enough to be here because he's only a beginner.

Come on that is not what Ron said man, he was just trying to say that if you don't like the forum and the way it is, you don't have to stay. The rest of that message was meant to be ironic. He was saying that as a beginner this forum could really be useful to you.

Ultimately Yojimbo, if you are going to align yourself with and defend prof R and his guitars, people here will give you a bit of a hard time unless you are very nice about it. I mean you don't see people giving rumbaking or Rob a hard time. As people have said, there is an ugly history there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 14 2011 0:53:11