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Spruce wood type preferences for bright sound
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dararith
Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA
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Spruce wood type preferences for bri...
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Wonderful aficionados, I have my heart set and I decided to buy a flamenco guitar and stray away from my Yamaha CG171SF that I've been playing for a bit. I have a local Luthier that will be hand-crafting an instrument for me. The guitar sound I am looking into should be more of a traditional blend where the sound is bright as brightest can be, and the control to be responsive and highly percussive. I should be able to hear each stroke for say, an amii rasgueado, clearly with distinct sound separation per flick, as required, and with minimal sustain......and preferably no buzzing. For these reasons, I have decided on a Blanca (though I'm sure enthusiasts can chime in otherwise for the Negra team). I am leading towards a spruce (over cedar) as I hear that's the more bright sounding of the two, and I'd like for it to age with me as I start to develop on my own, compared to cedar not sounding significantly any different as it ages. My question is really about the types of spruce wood used in producing this effect, and after doing some research, I cannot come up with a sound answer (pun intended), and would like your opinion for the choices for a guitar top. This soundboard will be used with Monterrey Cypress sides/back, tuning pegs, rosewood fingerboard, cedar neck. The setup is for a lightweight guitar that I can hopefully play loud, although I know some sacrifices must be made if I want it to be responsive and bright (that takes precedence)--you just can't have it all, and I understand (unless...?). For a spruce top, I'm deciding between Adirondack, Engelmann, Sitka, and European Spruce. 1) If they were all of average quality wood, which would you opt for? 2) And If they're all of high quality wood, which would you opt for? 3) What are your personal preferences in order? 4) Any other wood type besides the ones I mentioned to get the sound I described? I'm leaning towards European Spruce as it's tried and tested in the past (you can't really go wrong with it even if the quality nowadays can be comparable due to its scarcity). Although Adirondack (according to LMII) seems like it can be a good choice in getting a bright, rich sound. I know I can try out all the guitars and such, but I know there are great luthiers on this site (you all!) and if you have any experience making/playing with this type of setup, if there are any helpful insights you can provide me. Thanks!
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Date Mar. 7 2011 8:22:48
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dararith
Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA
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RE: Spruce wood type preferences for... (in reply to Sean)
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quote:
Another thing, why all this very bright stuff. A flamenco guitar has to have strong trebles of course, but very bright guitars are not very popular here in Andalucia. Players and especially singers want good midrange and especially body in the sound and of course, strong but not to bright trebles. I guess comparatively to the guitar I have now, it fails drastically at the higher registers, and can get muddy when doing certain rasgueados with the trebles being the focus (i.e. planting thumb on 4th string and doing an amii rasgueado). I have tried a couple of negras and just one blanca (not counting mine) and I was far more impressed with the sound produced with the blanca combined with the type of style I play. I do play very aggressively than most folks and mainly por cante y baile. The guitar I have now forces me to play louder, else my dancers would not be able to hear me (because the guitar just...sucks, haha). I figured a bright sounding guitar can distinguish the sound from my guitar with their taconeo...but apparently mid-range sound is what I should be looking for...? I'm guessing it's more than just the spruce species, and it's about the density/thickness/grain combination that would produce the sound I want? My luthier suggested I go with European spruce...possibly due to its stiffness and straight-grainedness. I'll keep his opinion in mind of course, but I would also like to hear others just so I can put it all together in my head and make a more informed decision.
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Date Mar. 8 2011 1:18:15
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dararith
Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA
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RE: Spruce wood type preferences for... (in reply to Sean)
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quote:
It's not really the straight grain, Adirondack is pretty wavy grained but incredibly hard, stiff and heavy. Engelmann can usually be found with the tightest most even straight grain but it is softer and it falls sort of in between Euro and WRC. I think for what you want a quality Euro top is a safe bet but as far as power and volume go that will depend more on how the guitar is made. The strongest recommendation I have is that the top be french polished, spray painting a guitar with plastic does very little to help a guitar in sound quality and volume. If you want to give this guitar every chance possible of having balls don't neuter it with a spray on finish. Thanks Sean! That is most helpful. I considered French polishing, but it was extra money and I thought that was simply for aesthetic purposes, but you're telling me that its tied to sound characteristic and quality too? Nobody wants a cheap pussy guitar... I will trust my Luthier on measurements of wood density/stiffness and that's where the real deal is, I suppose. I have tried an Adirondack with negra back and I was surprised with the sound quality (it had a lot of clarity and was very sweet sounding). I have yet to try real quality European spruce, so I can't say much on it. I guess the wood property I'm looking for should be something very stiff, yet light, based on what has been mentioned so far...
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Date Mar. 8 2011 8:15:02
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dararith
Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA
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RE: Spruce wood type preferences for... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
Dont put all spay´s in the plastic category. Nitro cellulose is not plastic and if well done has very high acoustic quality. I cant hear the difference compared with FP. If I didn't post on this forum, I would have just gone with the regular old spray or laminated wood, just like my Yamaha! Hahahaha! I didn't know these things mattered in sound, but I guess it can hinder the vibration, stopping the sound from projecting outwards. I'm guessing golpeadors can be bad too then, as it's plastic? quote:
Dararith: You cant compare to much with your Yamaha... Is a low entry level guitar which has been promoted heavily on this foro. But it is a low level guitar. Find yourself a good builder, tell him about your playing and let him build in peace. Since you play mostly dance etc. You need a guitar with a strong midrange push. The very bright guitar you mention is not giving you volume to do what you want. A good solid blanca would be my choice, one that pushes and seperates very well. Prefereably dry sounding with a short sustain in the basses and a good strong treble with a high midrange ring. I guess what I mean by bright guitar is really strong trebles. What you have mentioned is EXACTLY what I want. I want volume and separation between notes/strokes, so minimal sustain. I thought soundboard type would matter a lot so I figured I would pop the question on various woods. I was debating between a cedar at first too, but going with spruce as I hear that it's used more frequently and been successful, and that it only sounds better as it ages (too bad cars aren't that way...). Thank you all for your inputs!
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 8 2011 8:27:43
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