"Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)

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cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

"Andalusian" Guitars (no t...

I went down to Toronto yesterday to visit Ruben Diaz, I went everywhere in Toronto that sells Flamenco guitars and hes the only one that was left. I emailed him on Thursday and we arranged a meet. Hes actually a really nice guy.

Okay right off the start; No feet comments, no trolling, etc. This is purely focused on the guitars that I was shown.
I also brought a long my 700 dollar la patrie classical guitar for comparison.

First off, the prices you see online are ridiculous and not accurate. They are for the idiots who would actually pay that much for one. I have a budget of 1000 dollars and the guitars that were shown to me were actually really good. They are much better than the Alhambra 10c, 7f, the coroda (sp) and the Rodriguez guitars that I tried previously. For the 1000 dollar price range they are good. They have a really nice crisp dry sound to them and are loud. The guitar felt good in my hands, and the action was pretty good on them.

Although one of them I wasn't a fan of particularly, it was quiet and it sounded like it had a cold or something..

I know there is a lot of hate going around with Ruben, but he is actually a really nice guy and the guitars are definitely good if you get one for about 1000 dollars.

I do not care where they are made, as Tanunez would say "A good guitar is a good guitar, regardless of its maker" .... or origin.

I am going back next Saturday if the weather isn't to bad and may purchase one. ( I am still thinking about it.)

His camera does shame to the guitars on youtube, they sound much much much better in person.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 1:29:06

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Hey,

I joined this Forum after the whole umm controversy. So I am in a good position to just give my opinion and not slip into negativity.

Let me just say that I support your decision because you are trying a bunch of guitars personally and finding one that you like and that suits your price range. Many people are stuck buying a guitar they have never heard or played personally and it is a huge risk. At least you are seeing the guitars yourself and you like them and you are comfortable with the price.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 1:37:18

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 2:18:52

CuerdasDulces

Posts: 277
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Toronto

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

I've seen quite a few people that have them here in Toronto. Theres usually one or two at The 12th Fret guitar shop or on Craigslist. From my experience with them IMO they are OK guitars. I remember that I didn't like the feel of them while playing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 2:40:06

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to CuerdasDulces)

Thanks for your input Harry.

And yes Rumbaking! They developed a very bad reputation around here, which is not good because they are actually really good. I would never pay the 10,000 dollars that they are advertised for, but for 1000 to 2000 dollars that they actually are being sold for they are excellent in my opinion. I am still thinking about the purchase but I am sure I will be very happy with one if I do.

CuerdasDulces, one of them that I tried I hated the feel of it... Each one had its own very unique feel and personality etc... There are always the ones that didn't really quite live up to its counterparts.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 2:55:57

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Being able to hand pick a guitar for its quality is by far the best way to go and if the price is right for you, buy it. I won't comment on the sound or build quality of something I have never seen first hand but I do know most of the guitars I see in the shops for $1200 or less sound exactly like a real guitar would if I stuffed all my dirty laundry into the soundhole. I have an INTENSE dislike for the way Andalusian guitars are marketed but I also have a real dislike for a lot of the less then honest things that go on in Spain as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 3:05:25

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

I share the same hatred towards their advertising on these guitars Sean. But nonetheless I loved playing the sound and feel of most of them that Ruben showed me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 3:10:56

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Rumbaking is yours a lattice braced? I noticed on their website some were lattice braced and others had 9 parallel fan struts. What were the ones you tried cRobson? Just my luthiers curiosity nothing more. Personally I don't care where a guitar is made, I'd love a Salvador Castillo negra and I'm not even a huge negra guy, made in Mexico.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 3:18:22

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 3:40:28

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

I'm more the Blanca type as well, Castillo's guitars have so much adrenaline his blancas almost seem to much but thats probably more to do with the quality of the sound recordings I've heard, in person I'd probably walk away with his blanca. We should stop saying they're so good though as it will drive the price up, something I feel is gonna happen very soon anyways. Sure I'd like to see a few pics I remember when all wood lattice braced guitars came out and the negative views on it as a classical pointed it towards being a better flamenco guitar. What is your take on golpe sound with that top?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 4:23:18

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Things in real life are often differents than what they look in virtual world

Good topic!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 8:29:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

The flakk that Ruben and his sales team received here was for the outrageous spamming, promotion and questionable origin and personal endorsement (by Paco de Lucia) of his range of guitars along with the high end price tags.
Not because they were reasonable $1000 guitars.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 8:34:35

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Not because they were reasonable $1000 guitars.

Well with the Dr. Who know? This vid seems contradictory...

BS?

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 9:11:51

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

I would like to try one of these guitars. They sound very different to my ear. The pulsation seems good and also the sound appears to be well balanced over the guitars. To my ear anyway.

The head design is not very pretty though. That kind of puts me off but i would definitely love to try one given the opportunity.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 10:14:12

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

This is an interesting post because I was thinking of getting one of these guitars, but I must say all the bad karma here sort of put me off and had me questioning the whole idea.

For those of you that have one, I would be interested in the model and the price you paid if you don't mind sharing. You can pm me if you prefer. I'm also interested in the opinions of anyone else who has actually heard one in real life.

I can't remember the model name I was offered but I'll find out and post it here. The asking price was $1500 total (that's Canadian - I think our dollar is worth slightly more than the American dollar these days).

I also understand there's been some history with Ruben here (before I joined). I've also met him in real life and he seems like a nice guy - he's very enthusiastic, approachable and helpful. He's also a pretty good player in my opinion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 11:34:05

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 12:52:36

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 12:55:15

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

The flakk that Ruben and his sales team received here was for the outrageous spamming, promotion and questionable origin of his range of guitars along with the high end price tags.
Not because they were reasonable $1000 guitars.

i think it was you, ron, who said if they were just marketed honestly and were sold for 1000, they would make great student guitars.

if it sounds good and feels good, then go for it! but just be aware of your options first.
hey you might even make a better guitar yourself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 13:29:56

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

you can great sound projection and very crisp tones that will blow away most Flamenco guitars

Now that is quite a claim for a $1000 guitar

Did you pay $1000, may I ask? Is this blowing away most flamenco guitars?

Compared to what my money went on with an Anders:

Or one of Stephen Hill's:

I would personally recommend a Bernal over the ugly Ruben variety, if one can find them in the US for that money.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 13:30:00

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

I think in Canada we have it very different, it is hard to find a single flamenco guitar in most of the shops and the people who sell them don't know squat. I think because of low purchase volume the very few factory built ones they do get are the dregs and total crap. Since we are talking about a price point here that would be a total slap in the face anyway to an independent luthier I don't see any argument. Real money should go to real luthiers for really great sounding and playing guitars and overpriced factory brand name junk that sounds dead should be saved for bonfires regardless of country of origin.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 14:52:53

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Even at $1000 - $2000 from what I personally have seen here in Canada from a Spanish factory isn't much better sounding then a $350 Yamaha.
They're very pretty all shiny and glossy but have zero sound from their treble strings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 15:05:13

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

I purchased a Raimundo 145 in Montreal for about $1200 when I was learning. It was the best available flamenco guitar in music shops anyway.

It was a decent guitar to learn on to be sure. I did outgrow it however and I sold it for half the price to a guy who wanted an upgrade.

Part of the fun is searching, but in Canada if I had to do it all over I would probably call up Jeff Sigurdson who seems to get great reviews on this site.

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 15:11:08

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

The cheapest Bernal that really has nothing to do with him other then carry his name on the label and make him money would be $3000 taxes and shipping into my hands. This to me is just brand name shopping, I could get way more guitar for that built by a independent luthier.
We are talking even less money then that though in this post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 16:47:18

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

I tried a few Andalusian guitars - IMO if you can get their top models for less than 1.5k USD then its a good deal (keep in mind that you still have to select the guitar carefully).
The only Andalusian guitar I actually liked was their spruce/cypress Santos Hernandez model - this was probably the loudest guitar I have ever tried but the tonal quality was quite poor - no comparison to US and Spanish top makers. I would also consider Sigurdson student models in 1-2k price range in Canada.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 16:53:29

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

The one I am offered is the Marcelo Barbero 1945 model.

The strings are further apart than on my Conde - what's up with that?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 17:06:39

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yojimbo

The one I am offered is the Marcelo Barbero 1945 model.

The strings are further apart than on my Conde - what's up with that?

Wow, are you considering replacing your conde with Andalusian?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 17:11:40

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

I have yet to try any luthier built guitars other than my teachers and the andalusian guitar. In comparison to the alhambra, rodriguez, cordorba (sp) etc, the andalusian guitar wins if you get it in the price range of 1000 dollars. I have no idea how they would stack up against something like a Navarro or a castillo because I have never tried one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 17:12:45

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

I would say buy the best guitar for the money that you can try personally. You can always buy a better one down the road and you probably will!

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 17:18:12

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

If you can find a guitar with balls for $1000 that has good playability its a great deal end of story. Just make sure you're actually buying the one you tried, don't rely on buying the same model because its scratch free or not the demo etc, it'll get scratched anyways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 17:40:23