fake Hnos Sanchis Guitar? Nope, the real deal!!

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ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

fake Hnos Sanchis Guitar? Nope, the ...

Hey guys,

I tried a guitar last saturday, it was a hermanos sanchis lopez 3f arce.
Cut away with integrated Fishman mic and pickup system.

The problem is, I can't find the damn guitar anywhere on the internet, not even on the official hermanos site.

This is one of the best guitar shops in Paris, so I'm having a hard time thinking it may be a fake? No way, they had all the other models listed on the official site, plus this one.

Anybody ever heard of it?

It wasn't as loud as the other cypress guitars, but it was a very pleasant one to play...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 16:05:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Ive never heard of a 3f. Normally its 2f, 1f, 1af on Sanchis models.
You could contact Sanchis directly.
Hard to imagine but could it be that its just a misspelling??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 18:03:44

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

I sent the Hermanos a mail a few minutes ago.

This is sad if it's true. Makes me want to nuke the shop now.
Anybody got any information?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 18:25:56

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

I have been considering a Sanchis as well and I have spent several hours online looking.

I have never come across such a model, but keep in mind it is possible that they do not advertise it because the demand for this type of guitar may not be as high. Is that possible?

Anyway, the best is to go to the source as you have. They will want to know if someone is using their name under false pretenses.

Good luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 19:05:25

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

I seem to remember seeing a Ricardo Sanchis Carpio 3F some time back - I think it was the same as the 2f except it had some cosmetic flaws...not too sure why someone would try to fake one of these?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 19:10:53

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

faking such a guitar doesn't make any sence to me either

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2011 22:01:37

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Well making a fake guitar like this makes a lot of sense to me.

Considering it costs about 300 euros of wood to make the guitar.
They're selling it at 1500 euros because it's a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez.

They still haven't replied to my mail, so I still have no clue about the origin of this guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2011 17:10:43

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

"Arce" means "maple" in Spanish. From there no wonder that it sounded different from cypress models.

Maple is a tone wood rather rarely used for guitars, however unjustly so, provided the luthier manages to get the best out of it.
I have experienced maple specimens as remarkable, especially in regard of trebles. And it wouldn´t surprise if maple turned out as best suiting B/S material in the future.

There was an "arce" model of Amalio Burguet that I came across once, which wasn´t listed anywhere in his catalogue either.

Might well be similar with the Sanchis you found.
They might have been made in too small numbers to list, and hard to find.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2011 17:26:18

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Thanks for your input Ruphus, i figured by the tone it was not cypress. I didn't know Arce was maple though.

Your explanation makes sense and I hope it's the case, because i'm buying it for 1500 euros saturday if all goes well.

I still think the guitar is great to play, I tried the mic system on giga enormous amplifiers, it was terrific.

I will ask an explanation saturday to be sure i'm not buying a well made copy or something?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2011 17:41:38

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Good luck!
If it sounds good and suits you well in terms of playability, just buy it, no matter the label.

The good things seems to be that many customers go by passed on criteria, which might have been the reason why the Burguet arce had gathered dust in the shop.
After taken it with me for a couple of days and playing it in, it had blossomed so well that the surprised shop owner raised the price tag for another 400 € or so, before he put it back on the wall.
In that sense, yours might be underpriced as well.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 12:58:19

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Hey everyone!

I just called Sanchis Lopez in Spain.
He went all spanish on me so I said : Hello do you speak english?

Then he just hang up on me without saying anything.

So I called a second time, he said the same spanish thing, but I don't speak any words of spanish besides "mujer, tu es mi sueno".

So I said :

Me - "Sanchis Lopez Guitarra? do you speak english?"

- "Ah... yes, sorry abouth earlier, I thought wrong number"

Me - "Sure, no problem. I'm calling you from France, about a sanchis lopez guitar I found in Paris. But I can't find the reference on your website."

- "What is the reference?"

Me - "3F Arce with Fishman mic system integrated"

- "Did you find this guitar at the shop "L'Atelier"?

Me - "Yes exactly. Is this really your guitar, I thought it was a fake sanchis lopez".

- "No it is our guitar, but we made it on the shops demand recently"

Me - "Oh great! Well I'm buying it tomorrow, and let me tell you I like your guitars a lot!"

- "Ah thank you, I hope you will enjoy it".

So I'm getting my new baby tomorrow, and I'll post some pics/videos of it soon for those interested! I'm really happy i'm getting the real deal!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2011 16:03:55

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

congrats mate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2011 16:42:50

flamencoandclassical

Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 18 2011

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to Elie)

this is a good story

i wish i had some luck, i have been looking around for a while now !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2011 4:17:09

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Good move - always helps to ask.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2011 15:55:15

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

I bought the guitar thinking it was great... because i tried it plugged to an amplifier there.

I came home and discovered it has BIG problems...
I'm going back wednesday to show the shop all the things I think are unacceptable for a guitar this price...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2011 17:19:39

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

BIG problems

such as?

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2011 20:16:35

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

The sol si mi strings are touching the frets. The cords make some sort of plastic noise when I push them just a bit. When I put my capo at 2nd fret for exemple and play a barre cord on 7th fret, I get strange buzzing sounds from sol and si strings...

The setup isn't even that low... The frets are way too high for my taste on Mi La Re strings, and they're a bit lower for the three lower strings, but it's still not enough.

I will ask them a solution for this.
If they only propose to put another higher nut on the head, I won't accept.

I think the only solution is to work the frets lower. I'll take some pictures to illustrate my words.

But I'm really really disapointed. Even if 1500 euros doesn't get you the top quality guitar, I was expecting a guitar that plays well at least. My girls flamenco guitar we bought for 500 euros has a better set up.

F*** this...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 19:46:42

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Maybe that's why they called it the "3f arce".

(Think of the poor bugger who bought the cheaper model...the "fu2 madre"..)

Seriously, ashod....go and ask for your money back and just tell them the guitar after close examination and some playing is not suitable.
Don't compromise.
Certainly don't get them to re-work it, or that will make it "adjusted to user's specific requirements, hence NOT returnable".

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 19:58:56

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Hey Ron,

don't get me wrong, I like the guitar a lot.
The finition work is great on it, and the sound is beautifull when I don't push it too much. It just needs to have a better setup to be perfect.

I bought it saturday morning and played at our concert the same night.

Nobody noticed anything. When it's amplified, it's okay-ish. (Even If i still think the setup could get much lower).

But when playing in a calm environment, without any amps, the buzzing is noticable.

The thing is, I won't find a flamenco guitar with the fishman system pre installed if i give this one back, and since it's for my bands concerts, I need this mic system...

some pics of the beauty that sounds a bit nasty :

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:25:03

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

I too the pictures with my cellphone, so pardon the bad quality.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:27:47

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Beautiful back thanks to the maple, wich has a distinct sound.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:28:47

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

The fishman mics controls

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:31:54

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Blurry but I guess you get an idea

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:34:10

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

what's with the nut and the holes?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:36:11

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Last one

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:37:37

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Hi Ashod,

Looks a carefully built guitar from the photos.
The pre-installed Fishman would probably have put $400-500 on the price.
Then the cost of the hard case and dealer's profit margin.

So maybe not bad at the price?

Here's a comparison in the UK. ($1600)

http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co.uk/productfamily.php/family__3443__Alhambra+7Fc+CW+E2+Cutaway+Flamenco+Guitar+with+Fishman+Electronics

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:40:31

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

The nut doesn't look well fitted. It doesn't seem to be making good contact with the neck.

If I bought that guitar I'd probably order a TUSQ saddle and nut and set it up myself. They're inexpensive mods that can really tidy up a guitar.

See what the shop say on wednesday.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2011 20:49:48

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashod

what's with the nut and the holes?

the holes in the saddle is to give better balance to the UST.. cuz of the problem of unbalanced nylon strings using the pickup..
if it has no ust installed.. then i have no freaking idea.. lol maybe a mouse ate it =)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 6:29:37

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

Some builders make indents ( or holes like in this example ) into the saddle with the intention of achieving a measure of flexibility, so that the saddle shall be patted down by the strings / supporting firm contact between saddle base and bridge ( which again shall abet transfer of vibration ).
-

Ashod,

Ron could be right about quality to price ratio.

Look down the fretboard from the gearhead side ( nut to bridge direction ) and make sure that there is no convexing. Provided the fretboard looks nicely straight or compensated, check out eveness of the frets ( by putting something straight like a long ruler on them ). Make sure no fret is sticking out / protruding.

If both aspects are fine, there probably be no hazzles / clearing of the rattling should be possible by adjusting at nut or bridge or both.
- Fromk what you describe I would expect the nut to be a a bit too shallow. ( If so, after nuts renewal you can lower the action at the saddle to your desire.)

If the store is decent, the staff there should be in a position to correct setups or level frets easily.

Just don´t accept crooked or warped necks!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 11:03:28

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Need your help : fake Hnos Sanch... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

Maybe that's why they called it the "3f arce".

(Think of the poor bugger who bought the cheaper model...the "fu2 madre"..)

Rofl, I just noticed this Ron!

Thanks for your support and advice guys.

I went to the shop this morning before work.
I showed my guitar and started explaining. The shopekeeper asked me directly
"do you want to get your money back?"
I said no, I just want this problem to be fixed. I like the guitar a lot, but I can't play an instrument that has a string sounding like a dying duck.

They have a specialist that works only on thursday's (he's a guitar maker), who will take a looj at it tomorrow. They wrote my complaints on a paper and kept my guitar. I asked the shop keeper to play the guitar so he could see himself.

He admited something fishy was going on with the Si string.

I hope i'll be able to be there after work tomorrow to have a proper diagnosis.

He said they will fix it if they can, if the problem is too big, they will send it back to spain, or propose me another solution.

I'll let you know!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 18:11:08