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RE: Is Spanish always better than none Spanish.
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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 RE: Is Spanish always better than no... (in reply to Adam)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ramparts
When it comes to culture, birth is far more important than it should be. You can transcend the class you're born into, the politics, the nationality, but it's extremely difficult to truly switch cultures. Once an American, rare is the person who can move and become, say, a bona fide German.... But that's very, very hard to do when you've been born and raised completely separately from that culture.
-10000000
millions of people emigrating/having emigrated to other countries proove that wrong. People have different mentalities, even if they are born and raised in german or wherever for several generations. Culture is easily changeable like a coat. If i would be attracted by spanish or gitano culture i would adapt myself, learn spanish and history. Point is im NOT interested in spanish/gitano culture.
Flamenco playing/singing/dancing is a learned and trained ability. The earlier you start, the more resources you have and MOST IMPORTANTLY the more disciplined you are, the better you will get at it. Not much to do with culture. Culture is something very different (in my view).
GItanos are the gipsies of Spain. They are usually spanish, or at least the vast vast majority of them is. I dont the much confusion in these terms.
_____________________________
Фламенко
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Date Feb. 3 2011 16:57:29
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Adam
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
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RE: Is Spanish always better than no... (in reply to mezzo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mezzo
Might be interesting to heard what, for example, Pedro Cortes the guitarist in the States think about it ? 
Where he was raised by a flamenco guitarist dad who hung out with Sabicas.
I think you're both misunderstanding my point. Obviously a non-Spaniard, even one who came to flamenco at a relatively late age, can get very, very good, even professional level. Look at guys like Ricardo or Jason. But it's hard to deny that it's much harder and there's a very good reason it's much more uncommon.
And Deniz, what I was saying about culture wasn't that it's impossible to emigrate to a new country and integrate very well. Obviously millions of people do that. But it's much, much rarer to do that and not still have some vague air of "foreignness" about you. Hell, I've only lived in the UK for a few months and even if I make a career and a life here and stay for decades I don't think I'll ever be truly English (whatever that might mean) - there will always be a bit of "Americanness" to me. And that's just hopping across the pond to a country that used to own us! Imagine trying to become Spanish or Japanese or Mozambique....ean. Anyway, it's something that I find interesting but I admit is a bit tangential to the main thrust of this thread 
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Date Feb. 3 2011 17:19:12
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Is Spanish always better than no... (in reply to Rain)
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quote:
Music is a language that anyone can learn, how well someone speaks it is determined by how much one loves it.
True...
But the tiny nuances in the music (the part that makes all the difference) that has grown out of a small cultural area are really only learned by those born and raised in that area or by associating closely with such people who are visiting or have emigrated to your country.
Sure, you can with a lot of work, do a good photocopy in your bedroom that will sound convincing to other "foreigners", but probably not to the knowledgeable natives IMO.
Much in the same way that you can study a foreign language for years and years, but still not get taken for a native speaker from a particular region, unless you have spent quite a considerable time in that region, working, living and socializing with those people.
That is not to say that you cannot enjoy playing and performing Flamenco and become extremely competent, but if you are doing it at at a distance with no regular connection with performers who know that culture intimately and instinctively....then it's gonna be pretty difficult to ever think about putting on a show in Sevilla or Jerez, IMO
I'm not trying to be a downer here, but only realistic..the way I see it anyway.
cheers,
Ron
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Date Feb. 3 2011 19:37:47
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Is Spanish always better than no... (in reply to Adam)
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In the eighties there was an attempt of backwardedness trying to prove how much genetics were to determine character. ( How many discussions did I have then with so many people who loved to believe that nonesense!)
Some sicentists had reported on siblings grown up separately and how these had allegedly developed in the same way, eventhough brought up in different environment.
Naturally, this had to turn out as intented hoax.
Environment / surroundness remains the absolutely dominating factor that determines which of given talents will be unfolded, which of them will not and which of not genetically given talents might be fostered to more or less proficiency nonetheless.
( Worth mentioning besides: Communication, musicality, dancing, sculpturing and drawing are standard given talents with every common individual. Whereas, in how far supported after birth or not, being the big if.)
The environmental influence on development starts prenatal, and in recent years it has turned out that already babies will detect foreign accent.
Seeing the significance of surrounding and what I have seen in docus about Spanish Roma family life, I would expect them to have a ledge in musicality ( flamenco ) to most cultures out there. ( Not meaning that great gitanos had to be exclusively Roma in the same time.)
I sure wished to have been brought up in a musical family where almost everyone plays, sings or dances. With the people gathering on a regular basis, voluntarily sessioning.
Which in my opinion being specially common with Iberian mentalities anyway.
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 4 2011 10:58:53
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well.. nice. 
is that some kind of encrypted dig at the quality of Eurovison ?... 
