RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats

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Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

but when i do it it's as is my compas becomes chaotic. Result, i'm out.

First accompany only apagado, no chords just muted strumming. When you can do this while listening and don't get lost, try the same keep muted but only give tonos on count 3 or 10, then go back to muted strumming.....from there you should see where you were getting messed up "listening" to the cante melody for its intrinsic rhythm. You only need to give tonos on 3 or 10, and you will see it always works.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2011 22:34:21

dararith

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 4 2010
From: Oakland, CA

RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

If you think about it, that's exactly how you would feel about accompanying Blues if you had little experience of it.

I've never done blues before, but this game makes it sound all the more interesting. =D

quote:

First accompany only apagado, no chords just muted strumming. When you can do this while listening and don't get lost, try the same keep muted but only give tonos on count 3 or 10, then go back to muted strumming.....from there you should see where you were getting messed up "listening" to the cante melody for its intrinsic rhythm. You only need to give tonos on 3 or 10, and you will see it always works.

Are these the "KING" notes your speak of? Or rather, I should play the King notes on these beats...

Internalizing the compas and hitting it on the mark is fun and can be challenging to do. Keeping the rhythm with my fingers alone just feels like a losing battle. Your method of playing on beats 3 and 10 seem to work really well since it forces me to find other means of keeping rhythm and finding the groove (foot, head, shoulder...anything other than memorized right hand strummings). Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2011 0:43:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats (in reply to dararith)

quote:

Your method of playing on beats 3 and 10 seem to work really well since it forces me to find other means of keeping rhythm and finding the groove (foot, head, shoulder...anything other than memorized right hand strummings). Thanks!

Ok, but I did not mean to imply you can just strum random rhythms and count to 10. No way jose. What I mean is you better have your "memorized patterns" of strumming so well ingrained that you don't have to think so hard about where you are, but rather what you need to play at that moment (3 or 10). If you dont yet have memorized patterns of compas strumming for the palo ingrained then don't waste time trying to accompany any of it's cantes. That is what we mean by "keep compas" first of all. It means you can mindlessly strum the compas in a proper orthodox way that all can recognize is the palo. After that you can start to try to listen for tonos. But no point for that until you can already play in compas some chords.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2011 7:02:09

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

What I mean is you better have your "memorized patterns" of strumming so well ingrained that you don't have to think so hard about where you are, but rather what you need to play at that moment (3 or 10).

That's exactly the point.
And clearly dararith you can see that the right hand is much more important in the cante accomp than the left. If you don't get a proper strumming right hand first, you can not do anything convencing in flamenco.

Ricardo do you have some advices for mechanize the strumming pattern?
Atm i'm practicing with the flamenco master. Changing from 10 to 10 this chord progression (X02220) (310330) (110110) (X32330) (131211).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2011 8:01:58

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Compas elasticity and accented beats (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

try counting Potito's syllables in bulerias LOL

Just to add my 2 cents. If you are playing siguirilla as a guitar solo then its quite acceptable to stretch the compas. Afficionados dont keep palmas to guitarists playing solo siguirilla because its accepted that the compas/phrasing will be stretched. I have been told several times not to keep palmas to someone playing solo. Its very different with acompanying cante though where you keep a much stricter compas.

The same is true in solea to a degree. Its natural to stretch some phrases. I think that everyone assumes that an experienced player CAN keep it rythmically strict but chooses not to in order to enhance the performance/aire. This is not the same as someone who is playing out of compas because of lack of experience....its a subtle but important difference. You have to know the rules before you break them so to start with play in strict compas.

With buleria there is little stretching of compas. I have had older players tell me that its ok to slow down or speed up a bit during alzapua sections but I dont agree. Keep your buleria metronomic. The aire comes from the phrasing but that takes many years to feel natural.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2011 8:54:37