RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in Germany

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RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in Germany - Full Video

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Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Fabricio_Gomez)

quote:

if you really want to make business, you could shock people and say something like: "paco sucks, you want to know why? buy my new CD"

Nah..that only works for Naddel and Dolly Buster. Not in flamenco. Dont forget...flamenco inst very popular.... If you piss of the wrong person you get no gigs.... There is only a hand full of famous artists in flamenco (dance, singingincluded) maybe two hands full. Everybody knows each other and almost all already worked together...so you should think before you think..(see other thread..lol) if you want to earn money with flamenco in a bigger scale than the local chaps in other countries who earn peanuts in average with flamenco.

For narrow minded persons there is always only a "yes or no" "good or bad"...they dont see grey areas.

quote:

all the modern players you hear nowadays, always include some kind of "Paco" in their CD.
whether they do it intentionally, or unintentionally.
you find Paco in each and every composition (technique, idea concepts, etc.)

no comment... you generalize. That doesn´t work since you are not god who knows all.

The nice thing about flamenco is...its exactly like football... You can do sooo much trash talk about it. Everybody has his own religious viewpoint about all these dogmas. ROFL

So..Everyting in flamenco can be explained very easily. The answer is always : Paco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 11:04:32

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

flamenco players try to avoid mistakes while performing music. Manitas' mistake is to try to make his performing sound like music.

It wasn't meant to be music...just an opportunity to see the "greatest living gypsy guitarist on the planet."

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 11:47:02

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

Sorry Doit, I don't agree with you. Paco deserves all the praise he gets. I prefer to believe the consensus of opinions of flamencos rather than your skepticism. Hope you don't take it personally, but I think you're way off the mark.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 11:47:41

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

Ok Doit, then please name one of actual guitarists, who you believe praised Paco in an interview or somewhere else because of "business" and not because he really likes Paco or admires his music. and we will first analyze the case to see if you are right. then we will analyze his music!

of course this talk about Paco been "God" and that flamenco will die out without him, is more fun and joking. its more a reaction to some offensively minded anti-paco statements and not to be taken literally or too serious.
at least in the foro, i don't think there is anybody who has religious feelings towards paco.

but sometimes i feel like everytime paco is mentioned in a thread, a certain group of people feel compelled to mention again and again that he is NOT God. Seams to be some kind of preventive first strike, just in case! lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 12:50:56

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

Sorry Doit, I don't agree with you. Paco deserves all the praise he gets. I prefer to believe the consensus of opinions of flamencos rather than your skepticism. Hope you don't take it personally, but I think you're way off the mark.

Dont worry.. why should I be mad? We are just discussing. Im always rethinking my opinions.. If I see that Im wrong.. I change it. No big deal..

Anyway...I you didnt get me. I did NOT state that Paco doesnt deserve the praise he gets. Where did I write that?? I just wrote that the people wouldnt tell if his days are numbered.

quote:

Ok Doit, then please name one of actual guitarists, who you believe praised Paco in an interview or somewhere else because of "business" and not because he really likes Paco or admires his music. and we will first analyze the case to see if you are right. then we will analyze his music!

Man Arash... you are funny..

They wont tell of course.. You cant see the intention of such statements through analysis.. You would have to make them drunk or on drugs and then ask..

Its clear that Paco being God is not meant literally.

So to avoid further confusion...

I think that Paco is a great figure in flamenco who developed the guitar music as nobody else. So he deserves highest respect. Okay dokay?
But I also think that after Paco there will be other people, but maybe not as pathbreaking as Paco simply because:
And I also think that when Paco started, there were many many options in flamenco to work on and to change something. So,..no wonder..there must have been somebody who did that job, and it was Paco. And he also has great techniqual abilities...he was young, cool, whereas all the other guitarrists were old men in suits....so it was a home match for him. Now, since all became very complex and almost everything and any crazy thing has been tested by uncountable people...developing the guitar play became much harder.
So,..I doubt that there will be another Paco in future....

(Huh ...much stuff for moaning..hehehe

)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 13:19:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I think that Paco is a great figure in flamenco who developed the guitar music as nobody else. So he deserves highest respect. Okay dokay?

No...not good enough...

Joo must crawl on joor belly to the feets of Paco an' leek heez boots and ask heem to sign joor guitar...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 13:37:50

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I did NOT state that Paco doesnt deserve the praise he gets. Where did I write that??

No, I wrote that. I wasn't trying to put those words in your mouth.

You made some good points in your last post!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 13:55:15

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to XXX)

I would have to agree slightly there with you Deniz. The last time I saw him when he came to the States back in 2002 or 2003, he was in the middle of "Rio de la Miel" and all of a sudden he stopped completely for about 5 or 6 seconds. It probably was his worst performance ever. The Rondena he normally opens with did not convince me either. I guess those things even happen to "Francisco Sanchez Gomez". That was actually one night I wish I had not attended the concert.

quote:

I dont watch out for mistakes, but too many of them or too big ones, and it ruins the whole feeling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 14:31:30

Morante

Posts: 2181
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Arash)

Sabéis que existe una cosita llamado "cante", lo que es más importante que la guitarra?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 14:33:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

So,..I doubt that there will be another Paco in future....

The only thing you said that made any sense so far. Sounds as if you are trying to convince your self of something you know is not true. Figure it out man. Meanwhile, Paco's show remains "worth the money" until some other player can do a better job.

I think there are actually a handful of players that can deliver the goods as paco did in the concert loaded in this thread. Yet that same group of young upstarts have nada but "godly" praise for Paco inspite of this. Why, Because they want a job???

The plain reason is if you can play at that level and you see what paco is STILL doing in concert today, he pretty much is shutting the mouths of those that might have some feeling inside that is telling them "Paco is over... he is so yesterday"....etc

At least that is how I feel after I read what folks write on the forum here then go and finally view the concert footage and get, more then anything, totally inspired.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 14:44:18

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Sabéis que existe una cosita llamado "cante", lo que es más importante que la guitarra?

"Tiras piedras por la calle..."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 15:01:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Sabéis que existe una cosita llamado "cante", lo que es más importante que la guitarra?

sheesh. Talk about Paco's days being numbered? Cante died long ago with Paquera and Chocolate. well I guess we still have agujetas.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 15:11:59

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

The only thing you said that made any sense so far.

wrong

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 18:22:40

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

You would have to make them drunk or on drugs and then ask..

hmm, are you sure that they wouldn't praise him even more than usual, if they are drunk?

honestly, my opinion is that all current players (or at least the majority) have nothing but admiration for paco.
and it wouldn't make any difference if you ask them in an interview,,,,, or secretly in a bar after 20 cervezas.
of course i can't prove it but thats my opinion.
but i could prove influences and sometimes copies of paco ideas and concepts in almost all modern compositions and all players you and me like.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 18:31:01

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

hmm, are you sure that they wouldn't praise him even more than usual, if they are drunk?

I don´t know... hmmm... Maybe water-boarding would bring out honest thoughts?

...

This would also do the job..

Ok ok... Im convinced.. at least with this argument... ok? When thinking deeper about that any professional flamenco guitarist could think bad about Paco... that Paco is maybe not the boss or whatever and just pretend that hes the boss to stay in business... It makes not soooo much sense..

Well.... it was just an idea.. But good that we sorted that out guys.

So I take that business-statement whcih I did a few posts above... OFFICIALLY BACK! So.. which statements are still open for discussion? (-.-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 18:37:57

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

which statements are still open for discussion? (-.-)

i think everything is clear now and nothing left to be discussed.

we now all agree that Paco is GOD

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 19:18:41

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

we now all agree that Paco is GOD

yes he definitely IS

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 19:24:03

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

which statements are still open for discussion? (-.-)

i think everything is clear now and nothing left to be discussed.

we now all agree that Paco is GOD

Yes!!! even doit is a convert!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 21:05:52

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Well maybe not quite GOD but more like the Pope of Flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 21:35:14

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

You will not gain respect from flamencos if you dont repeat the following 3 words AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN:
1. cante/duende/jondo
2. Camaron
3. Paco
People who know how to clap, sing, dance, play will not automatically respect you, but, as shown many times on foro, if you DONT follow those rules, you will draw attention and possibly gain less respect even from everybody, including those who DONT do anything in flamenco. This is not my opinion. It is a fact.

Im not saying it is a good or bad system. Im just saying how the system is. Lets be honest, anybody who dont thinks in that set of rules is an outlaw in flamenco, no matter how far he has gotten artistically with his playing, singing, dancing. Ricardo is right, if you dont like that system better shut up and behave, or you're lost.

Ps: Pope is soo uncool. Paco is way cooler than any pope could be.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2010 23:58:36

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1892
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to XXX)

i think Simon should introduce a "like" button here :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 0:44:42

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

Well maybe not quite GOD but more like the Pope of Flamenco.

That would be Tomatito. the first of the 12 disciples.

quote:

You will not gain respect from flamencos if you dont repeat the following 3 words AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN:
1. cante/duende/jondo
2. Camaron
3. Paco

excuse me but where is COMPAS????? and AIRE???? ....might as well throw in Soniquete too if you are serious about being "cool".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 5:17:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
excuse me but where is COMPAS????? and AIRE???? ....might as well throw in Soniquete too if you are serious about being "cool".

You dont need compas as long you repeat the other words often enough. Also saves practice time, which you can re-invest in more talking time about cante/Paco/Camaron.
And soniquete, havent you seen the interview where Diego Morao describes the meaning of that with the english word "feeling"?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 10:39:47

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

You dont need compas as long you repeat the other words often enough.

I mean even without having it, you need to TALK about it. LOL

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 16:19:36

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I mean even without having it, you need to TALK about it. LOL

I know. I hesitated because thats a different definition of compas THEY have in mind

its more kinda ... flexible, or individual? =)

btw, ive heard that the seguiriya compas is just the same as bulerias ...

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 16:59:45

Fabricio_Gomez

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 2 2011 10:37:06

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2010 23:37:25

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Arash)

Thanks Arash, very much appreciated.
Best wishes for 2011.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2011 14:38:07

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Thanks Arash!

BTW, can you advise a good program to copy youtube videos? PM if need me. Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2011 21:39:20

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathulu

Thanks Arash!

BTW, can you advise a good program to copy youtube videos? PM if need me. Cheers

Sorry , missed this post.

I used keepvid.com.
Just copy and paste the link of the Video in to that website, and you get different options for download.

Lately i use the DownloadHelper Plugin for Firefox Browser. This is even more easier. You just go to youtube and it automatically detects the videos. You push the button of DownloadHelper (which is now part of Firefox) and done.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2011 11:39:26

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia - 2010 Concert in ... (in reply to Arash)

This was probably one of Paco’s best filmed concerts from the tours before his death. Unfortunately I have misplaced my 1080p version (old IPad was erased apparently), and the YouTube versions tend to be clips or lower quality versions (360, 480p versions at best). This is the only one I could find at 720, for posterity. Everything else in this thread is dead links.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 21:11:42