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On playing "really difficult" stuff on the guitar.
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 On playing "really difficult&qu...
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To Begin at the beginning ... (D.Thomas)
Why?....
I've been through this myself and tortured myself that I can play 50% of a particular PdL piece, reasonably badly, but the rest of it is totally above my level.
So why do it? 
It goes great for 15 seconds, then gets into treacle and goo, loses compás completely and then gets good again for the next 15 seconds, and then back to goo again... 
All the notes are there...
But is that music?
Or an examination in fingering?
Rafa said something like "Don't go so fast, you've got to savor the chords and the notes"
Yeah, I can get that and and as a fellow guitarist, I definitely know what Raf's talking about.
But can you do that at the expense of the palo, the compás?
I doubt if that kind of attitude would get you very far in the world of accompanying, with a group of people, where the rhythm just goes on despite your technical difficulties! 
By the time you had got through your labouring and stuttering picado, they would be already be on the second half of the next compás! LOL!
Flamenco is incredibly difficult, both in theory and practice, that's for sure.
There are lots of guitarists out there playing really good stuff who are not so technically gifted as Paco or Tomatito, or Vincente or Gerardo.
But they play great stuff!
Guys like Diego Amaya, Niño Jero etc..
They play great Flamenco!
Sometimes very simple falsetas, but with a great "spin".
To me, that's where it's at...
I really can't understand why anybody would put themselves under the stress of trying to play a composition by one of the World's finest Flamenco guitarists, which they will never even get near to, except maybe sounding a bit like that Russian guitarist!
Set yourselves free (as Sting says)
Lose the "heros", because you are very unlikely to even become close to where they're at.
There are at least a few hundred Flamenco guitarists in Andalucia, who have recorded nothing and would just blow you away completely.
Enjoy "El Mundo Flamenco" instead!
Practise, and get as good as you can, I say...
...Listen to Todd, who in spite of being a "foreigner", still considers good timing, good tone to be the main ingredients of a piece.
That's what makes him so good!
Before anyone thinks, "Yeah, but he's got a great recording setup" etc..
Todd would still sound great on a mono Philips Cassette!
And he's not even Spanish LOL!
That's being a Musician IMO!
cheers
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 18 2005 20:53:57
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: On playing "really difficul... (in reply to Ron.M)
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Right you are Ron, and I have gone through the same thing with Paco's music-I've accepted that I don't have the chops to play his pieces all the way through. I can accompany dance pretty well, and can improvise falsetas and follow tough dance steps the first time seeing them in many cases. I can sit there and play bulerias, solea , etc, and make stuff up as I go along, which is more fun for me than playing a piece over and over. Of course, it doesn't sound nearly as good as even the russian guy, but hey, it's what I like to do. Sometimes I record it and one little bit will come out sounding really good. That's the fun for me -to play something for the first time and have it sound good, or to play for a dance or part of a dance well without ever having seen it. To guy's like the Russian or Todd who can pull off those great pieces all the way, my hat's off. After thirty years of playing guitar, I'd rather go surfing than sit in a chair studying long enough to play a solo concert. That's for the younger guys.
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Date Feb. 18 2005 21:51:38
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: On playing "really difficul... (in reply to Ron.M)
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Well, it is not about always practice slow, or dumbing down the music so you can hack through it. The beauty of flamenco guitar is that it is designed to be rhythm/falseta/rhythm, etc where you don't have to play a complete "piece". It is possible to just pull the falsetas that you can actually play well.
Paco de Lucia has tons of stuff anyone can play, just beautiful melody and rhythm. Of course the speedy runs are a challenge, but there are so many other things easily accessable, and just as impressive to flamencos. If you can't get a certain falseta, just skip it and come back to it another time. You may come across a technique in a different falseta that helps you learn something about the one you skipped.
Nothing is more satisfying than getting one nice bulerias falseta down cold, and trying it out in a juerga, live w/ palmas. What a great feeling. I have met classical guitarists who have been working on the same "piece" for years, and still can't get all the way through it. What a waste of time. Just play something man, one falseta and it is impressive to others and satisfying for yourself.
Ricardo
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Date Feb. 19 2005 6:11:58
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: On playing "really difficul... (in reply to Ron.M)
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Yeah there are a couple of flamenco pieces that have a flow to them, that if you break it, it seems to kill the compositional intent or development. But that is the minority of works. You would be surprised how often the composers themselves will change up their own beloved standards. When did Paco play Entre dos Aguas exactly like the original? Has he ever recreated a solea or bulerias or Rondena exactly like the CD in a live setting? Sometimes the changes are obvious, sometimes subtle. VA's music is almost unrecognizable since his early recordings. Sabicas was always improvising.
Still, we the students have the option to take either path when following the masters. One route has lots of little, humble, short sighted goals w/ big rewards. The other, well, there may never be light at the end. It's a constant un-obtainable goal like Einstein's light speed barrior, the closer you get, the farther away it seems to be.
Ricardo
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Date Feb. 19 2005 9:17:54
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Ryan002
Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore
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RE: On playing "really difficul... (in reply to Ron.M)
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The breath of the flute player does not belong to the flute.
I don't much see the point of trying to *seriously* imitate a piece from any other musician, note by note, whether a famous one or not. I suppose it's nice to be able to play a bit of what the masters play, just so long as it dosen't become an obsessive need to be "exactly the same". No one but Paco de Lucia will sound like Paco de Lucia. If music is a reflection of the musician, then trying to directly imitate the music would be as absurd as trying to be a direct imitation of another person.
Anyhow, I'd note that many amazing guitarists (Flamenco or not) didn't get to where they are by obsessively copying others and wanting to be the best. They just settled on the fact that they sound a certain way, and did nothing more than work on projecting themselves through their music, with little concern about being the world's greatest. Just read the many interviews. They may have been madly obsessed at the beginning, but the obsession later fades into merely "heavy influence", and finally, a sort of acceptance and discovery of themselves that makes their music truly sincere.
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Date Oct. 26 2005 7:44:13
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: On playing "really difficul... (in reply to Ryan002)
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Ron, you seem to be your own worst critic :-)
I am a strong beliver that absolutley anyone can achive anything they really want, if you want to play faster then Paco is possible , just practice more than hes ever done.
I hate limiting myself to what i can and cant do, theres absolutely no reason why i cant become as good as i wanna become, if i cant do it today i will practice and do it next year. We all measure succes differently, if one is happy with where hes at then greate hes achived his goal, i am not yet anywhere near it.
the first step to acheving anything is beeing able to dream about it and beliving that you can achieve.
truth is youl go as far as your barriers alows, who sets the barrier ? .. You
I agree , dont do a Paco de Lucia piece cause its a Paco de Lucia piece and your mates will be impressed do it cause you like it.
But the only time your level improves is when you chalenge yourself to play something harder than you can comfortably play otherwise is just a warm up.
And remember Paco was really slow and **** once too 
" Realisic " pple dont achive **** in the world,they live theyr realistic life and die, is the crasy ones , the dreamers the ones that said one day I will fly, that have left an impact and changed the world.
The guy playing guitar with only his feet that Jon B. posted about here was probably told that he is crasy when he told pple that he wants to play guitar, he was probably told that he would never achieve it, dont underestimate what pple can achieve if they are comited to something. Truth is we are all born the same none of us have any advantage, only some are crasy and belive that they can do anything, and they normaly do.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 26 2005 9:15:58
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What I have been able to do though is grasp those certain falsetas that really appeal to me and add those to my library of falsetas that I'll use at the appropriate times. 
This has worked better for me since a lot of the playing that I do enjoy in flamenco is dance and cante accompaniment. I'm not suggesting that this is easier, as it has it's own set of challenges. 
