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RE: Blackshear/Reyes style
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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 RE: Blackshear/Reyes style (in reply to gerundino63)
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Back on topic.
I think Toms guitar looks very nice and I know he has a reputation for building very fine instruments, so as I stated before, the price is fair compared to other builders.
How much do you expect to pay for a new Antonio Marín Montero or other very good Spanish builders.
The amount of time going into construction of an instrument is something personal and I have a lot of respect for builders who at Toms age have the energy, skill and engagement to continue building. 
Arash,
Max 5000,- $ for a new Luthier built guitar is just a number. If its what you´ll pay, then thats it, but its not a reflexion of reality.
Instead of writing things like that, take a look around and see what guitars cost. Almost all well known makers charge more than what you write or is it an error that you wrote 5000,-$ instead of 5000,-€
_____________________________
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Dec. 6 2010 15:57:43
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Patrick
Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon
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RE: Blackshear/Reyes style (in reply to gerundino63)
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The most prolific builder I know of is Robert Ruck. He builds between 30 to 35 a year. I once asked him how it was possible to make that many in a year. He said when he steps into the shop; his mind set is as though he is running a small manufacturing plant. The only help he has is wife doing more mundane task. He builds all his own rosettes and bindings. He does use lacquer, but a lot are French polished.
He told me he is in the shop an average of forty hours per week or less. He takes a quite a bit of time off as well. So if we figure 50 weeks maximum at 40 hours we have 2,000 hours per year. His wife is in the shop full time so let’s add in another 1,000 for her. So 3,000 hours per year equates to 100 hours per guitar with 30 built per year. 100 hours divided by 40 hours per week equals 2 ½ weeks per guitar.
So can you build one in three weeks or less? It can be done, but only by a machine like Ruck. DeVoe does something like 24 a year, so he’s very prolific as well.
So let’s now look at the economics in building. Using Ruck as our example, let’s assume he builds 30 per year. I believe he gets around $5,000 on average (which is high for most builders). So $5,000 times 30 equals $150,000 per year. A lot of dough right? Well not necessarily. He probably has at least $500 per guitar in material cost. So $500 times 30 equals $15,000. You then need to take into account overhead of tool cost and shop expenses. (glue, electricity, etc.). I’m not a builder, but I would estimate at least $100 in overhead per guitar, so that’s another $3,000 (minimum). He works from his home, so let’s not add rent.
So we now take $18,000 off of $150,000 which leaves $132,000. Still a pretty good pile of cash, but remember that’s for both he and his wife. So a pretty descent income but he is not getting rich. Let’s put this into perspective. In the area Ruck lives in, Registered Nurses make $60,000 to $80,000 per year. A mid level executive would make at least $100,000 per year. So if he and his wife were in the main stream workforce they could easily bring in $150,000 or more.
Also keep in mind, most implorers in the US pay for all or a major share of health insurance cost, which for a family like Ruck can easily run $20,000 per year that he has to pay for out of his pocket. He also has to pay the full Social Security taxes on his income being self employed, where an employer pays half in the US. And then take into account most employers have some type of retirement plan that they contribute to, that Ruck has to do out of his pocket.
Doesn’t sound so glamorous now does it? And remember, Ruck is at the very top of the building world as for income. Most would be lucky to be at a third to half his income.
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Date Dec. 6 2010 17:40:05
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Blackshear/Reyes style (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
You know absolutely nothing about what you write. So please stop insulting me or someone else trying to make a living in a difficult world.
What you are, is the typical internet wise guy trying to be something he aint. Its sooooooo poor. 
Yep, I think that was the photo in question.
What makes you getting rude?
So, a photo looked as if there were gaps at a joint and I thought it to be indicating imperfection, for not having seen open joints with refined builds yet.
As was just explained such could occure with well built guitars however, and I add it to the personal news.
What however makes you go overboard to further syncretism, insinuating I had to have no clue in general?
quote:
Cosmetics are important especially on poor sounding guitars but if the thing sounds and plays like a dream no player cares. Only the collectors and the perfectionist who dont play very well.
With phantasies like that you shouldn´t accuse anyone else for allegedly talking out of his back.
I do own instruments with inferiour cosmetics, yet appreciate them for their practical merrits. ( And there is another one on its way, whichs luthier isn´t the most meticulous in finish either, while fully concentrated on practical characteristics. )
Two of them even looking like trash, yet cherished for sound characteristics and playability.
Cosmetics aren´t remotely of first priority to me, but with your permission, I sure appreaciate them whenever given.
What remains is that YOU seem to estimate three months for a single guitar, whereas other luthiers won´t ( while delivering top notch ).
Seems as if such fact gets you really going from start, but its still no reason to get frantic on who points to it, like me. ( Don´t kill the messenger.)
My opinion is that if a buyer feels compelled to purchase a guitar for a given price than that is how it will be, but luthiers shouldn´t back up their pricing philosophy with the claim that a guitar would be taking three months to be made, unless what they produce would be accordingly different from common conditions / out of this world.
Do you think such an opinion to be blasphemy? I don´t; like it or not.
Disclaimer:
The Eliasson guitar formerly referred to in this thread actually does not show gaps at its joint.
Ruphus
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Date Dec. 6 2010 19:57:21
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