Flamenco Foro

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Flamenco Foro

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 3 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

Flamenco Foro

I have been a member of various flamenco forums over the last 14 years or so. Every one of them disintegrated into petty insults and " I know more about flamenco than you do" contests and self destructed. In fact it was due to a problem on another forum that Simon set up foro flamenco. So I am sorry to hear, but not surprised, that Simon is fed up right now.

It cant help that Simon is solely responsible for financing the foro. At one point a donation scheme was proposed. I donated at the time and would do so again. Is it possible to post again the paypal details or whatever to donate so we can show our appreciation for the forum and for the moderators.

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:04:36

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

I too would like to donate

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:09:38

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Me three!
In the short time I've been a member, the forum has definitely contributed to my improvement.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:22:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

quote:

I am sorry to hear, but not surprised, that Simon is fed up right now.

Eeehhh ¿Que pasa?

I havent seen any insults etc. since October when I joined the forum after my break.
But maybe I´m so lucky that I only read the wrong posts.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:27:49

Leendert

Posts: 153
Joined: May 27 2010
From: WI, USA

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

quote:

I have been a member of various flamenco forums over the last 14 years or so. Every one of them disintegrated into petty insults and " I know more about flamenco than you do" contests and self destructed. In fact it was due to a problem on another forum that Simon set up foro flamenco. So I am sorry to hear, but not surprised, that Simon is fed up right now.

It cant help that Simon is solely responsible for financing the foro. At one point a donation scheme was proposed. I donated at the time and would do so again. Is it possible to post again the paypal details or whatever to donate so we can show our appreciation for the forum and for the moderators.

Yeah, It bothers me that I had to see things escalating here and then having to read it might stop the forum. I understand Simon (and other moderators?) in every way, but also think it is not fair to all those on here with nothing but nice intentions and who are respectful towards each other and are just here to gain information, communication and learn and discuss anything flamenco.
I, for one would really not like to see the forum go, I am a beginner but it has been a big resource of information to me and I made some nice friends on here.
I hope Simon did not made a definite decision yet into doing so.
If donations help in any way, count me in!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:43:00

coreydefresno

Posts: 68
Joined: Nov. 5 2010

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Dear Foro,

I appreciate Kate's dedication to keeping this foro the valuable tool and resource that it is when used well.

I will contribute money to help the foro should my offer be accepted.

Un cordial saludo,
Corey

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:43:31

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

I don't mind contributing to the foro to help keep it running, other forums do it. It is not the best approach perhaps and I would expect gets a bit tiresome but we are a small community on the net, so advertising dollars probably can't support this totally.

On the other hand, I don't think the forum should live or die on whether Simon or anyone else gets fed-up with it. That is not right imho and that shouldn't hang like the Sword of Damoceles over our heads. Moderators are there to delete offensive posts and should do their job.

My personal feeling is that this forum maintains the right balance almost all the time, and steps over the line only rarely. It seems to reflect life pretty well in that respect.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:50:53

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

i don't think this prob can be solved with money. It's funny to see people thinking that money can fix everything...

quote:

Moderators are there to delete offensive posts and should do their job.

ole!

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 16:56:28

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to mezzo)

You are right Mezzo money will not stop the problem of members infighting. I suggested that we should consider donating as otherwise Simon pays for the whole thing which does not seem fair. it is hard enough work keeping the forum going without having to foot the bill yourself and police it to keep the peace.

Cathulu. Simon is not only a moderator, Ron and Henry share this burden, however Simon is the owner and the one responsible for the very existence of the foro. Sometimes like a parent he has to put his foot down and say behave or he will take the toys away and that is not a nice position to be in. He has every right to say he is fed up and considering whether it is worth it.

Ron mentioned this in his post but it is worth remembering what happened when the foro was taken in to other hands. It was a total failure and we begged Simon to take control again. Anyone here can set up their own forum and until they do we should be thankful for Simon's tolerance and dedication.

And we should seriously consider helping out with the financial side. Glad to see so many offers of donations. All we need now is the paypal account to send it to. I think we may already have one. Would a donations button be easy to set up ?

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:05:54

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to mezzo)

I don't think money will fix anything in terms of private vendettas, disrespectful comments or things like that either. But the donations, yearly membership or whatever is to help cover cost and time invested in maintaining such a website. I profit from this forum and so would not mind contributing.

If he does not mind supporting all costs by himself then that is fine, but I've read at least two comments about 'doing this for free' so I think it's something worth considering.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:10:31

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I havent seen any insults etc. since October when I joined the forum after my break.
But maybe I´m so lucky that I only read the wrong posts.

same for me, whats this all about?

I dont really see member not behave actually, (if they do, you could just give warnings and maybe (temporary bans) or something like that?
If its about the money, donating can be the solution.
btw what actually are the cost to maintain this forum?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:13:36

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

On the other hand, I don't think the forum should live or die on whether Simon or anyone else gets fed-up with it. That is not right imho and that shouldn't hang like the Sword of Damoceles over our heads. Moderators are there to delete offensive posts and should do their job.

if he gets sick of all the bs, he has to the right to kick us out and close the doors to this place. he owns the place. it's not "ours."

im sure the work required to run this place is a lot harder than we give the admin and moderators credit for.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:21:44

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to yohan)

Make a paypal donation button Simon! Also consider making a "subscription" button.... A recurring monthly donation. I have said it before and repeat again that I would be more than happy to support the Foro financially.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:26:12

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

i will gladly donate, btw.
i think this sort of thing should happen every season actually.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:28:42

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to at_leo_87)

I don't know if I agree with that totally. I think the foro is a living and breathing thing and is the combination of everyone's contributions. We all keep it alive. I have seen dead forums. All the money in the world and good intentions couldn't keep this place alive if we all didn't enjoy it so much and participate.

Simon was the original founder I understand, and he played and plays a key role. He is the "owner" and pays for the upkeep. But if he decides to close the doors, I think he has an obligation now to pass the torch on to someone else who is willing and can keep it running.

I don't think threatening to close the place if you don't like the dialogue is productive - although he has not directly said that, it is coming through an intermediary. Not sure what Simon's actual thoughts are on this.

That is why forums have moderators. And I don't think the recent activities represent the ongoing day to day business of the forum. They are a pimple that flare up every once in a while. Bid deal, moderators squeeze it and it is gone.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:33:26

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Thanks Kate. Money has never been the issue but I will set up a donate button to my PayPal account.

Got a lot of other things going on at the moment so it may be at the weekend. Perhaps if enough donate a little, they can feel they own a slice of the forum and will step up to balance the tone.

Ron and I let things run a lot more than most moderators as we hope for some peer pressure to stop things getting out of control, rather than ignoring it and expecting us to mop up.

This forum costs about $70 per month to operate as the database is pretty big, the upload space quite generous and we have full control rather than the rubbish hosting services we have had in the past - albeit they were cheaper.

The revenues from ads are tiny, maybe $100 a year if that. Most of the profit I make from "El Guitarrero" goes towards the costs.

But to repeat, it is not the money, it is the principle that a community should be able to self govern with dignity.

If you are upset at a post, use the Report Abuse button. That helps us draw the line. If you do not, we let the thread continue for a while as we cannot be sure if this is because you are enjoying the sport, ignoring it or afraid to comment.

On a more selfish point. This forum is on my professional resumé as an example of my work on the Web and the power of a community. As such, my clients and employer may happen across the forum in the middle of a bitch fight. When these go too far, especially in tone and language, my professional reputation is on the line.

The same can be said of those who indulge in these threads, those who make a living by teaching and performing. Their prospective clients will form their own opinions. The Web has a long memory.

Peace.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:43:12

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

Simon was the original founder I understand, and he played and plays a key role. He is the "owner" and pays for the upkeep. But if he decides to close the doors, I think he has an obligation now to pass the torch on to someone else who is willing and can keep it running.

im not sure i follow the logic here. if i kick my friend's out of my house because they're being annoying, am i obligated to find them another place to hang out?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:43:32

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Count me in for a donation. As a new member, the archives alone have been an invaluable resource. I want to help this place grow and thrive any way I can.

Regarding the infighting - some drama and tension is to be expected on any forum, isn't it? I haven't seen anything overboard in the recent posts. That said, it's up to Simon and the mods to dictate where the lines are drawn. In my opinion, I actually enjoy the tension - especially on a flamenco forum! I think it's positive to voice differences and hash things out. At a certain point it makes sense for people to take things to PM, but I can't say I haven't enjoyed some of the stories. Oh, and the cartoons are great too

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:51:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

I think he has an obligation now to pass the torch on to someone else who is willing and can keep it running.

Of course I would do that. I have done it before and it was a debacle, even Ron got banned

Rest assured I am not going to shut this place down without offering it to the community.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:51:35

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

No no please stay Simon. No more old school foros.

But to repat what I asked and others as well.

What is happening. Which thread is the infected one this time? I mean I´ve logged in here for some 7+ years now and just give me the URL

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 17:58:19

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

just give me the URL

just have a look at the ones who have recently been locked

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 18:03:08

michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

let's also consider the 99.9% peaceful threads and topics created by 99.9% of very peaceful members 365 days a year.
for the other part of the problem we have a clear statement from the owner of the foro, what do we want more?. i take my guitar now and go back to practice (regardless of the shape of my fretting hands nails

)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 18:22:00

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

[Awaiting Approval]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 18:30:51

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Im all in favor of a paid subscription, but Id prefer a once yearly payment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 18:45:07

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

Well I have a copy of El guitarrero , I loved it , I was actually on the edge of my seat buy the end , I didn't want anything to go wrong with the guitar . Now i am happy to realise That I contributed to this foro.
What I was thinking as an alternative was if the foro members contributed video toward a educational or performance dvd . We could create another saleable item To help this community support itself . I would personaly love a copy and would buy a copy .Peace

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 19:34:56

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to at_leo_87)

Hi Anthony

I guess my logic is that what if you build a house, you have the foundation and the studs and roof on, but the house is empty and you are alone inside it. Then all of these people come in and put up the drywall, paint it, furnish it and it is now nice and comfy and they live with you. Do you have the right to kick them all out then? Legally maybe yes but morally?

The above is just to clarify my position...

I think Simon has clarified things for us and I don't have much further to add other than a monetary contribution to help run things.

Cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 19:45:14

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 11 2010 20:09:19
Reason for deletion: provocative

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 19:57:08

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

this Foro was a great resource for me all the time.. it really opened a new doors for me to the flamenco world .
sure I will Donate and I know that I can't repay the huge knowledge this foro has given me

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 20:08:01

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Flamenco Foro (in reply to Kate)

As it looks like I am one of the reasons why Escribano thinks about quitting.

If so, please ban me Escribano. Delete my profile and I promise, I wont come back and I wont be mad about that at all. You are a nice guy and here are so many people who share opinions in harmony. If I am out of place, than I will leave.

For the sake of the foro. Im serious.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2010 20:09:04