My Day by “Little” Tommy Whiteley (Grade one)

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Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

My Day by “Little” Tommy Whitele...

Today I played a Yamaha flamenco. No not the FC-31 which “is for serious players” and costs around $2580.49. It was the CG171SF which is priced under $350. For the price it is not bad. I can play it and not curse – much. It weighs more than all my guitars combined. Is that a fair thing to say? That must mean something to someone. It was ok and better than some $1500 pieces of wood. This is a good beginner or budget minded person’s guitar.

Then I played a 1955 Miguel Rodriguez flamenco! Very nice and $3500. Much better than any of the Ramirez line as of the last 38 years!

It is said that it is the guitarist that is important and not the guitar. I beg to differ! This is my theory and I argued with my teacher for many years on this! If you begin with an inferior instrument you may and will in fact loose all interest in playing guitar and take up some other activity. At least give yourself a chance and get a decent instrument.

Most beginning players do not know what a good instrument is. Price does not always dictate quality. Somehow some of us get through all of this. So do your homework before you make a purchase. Labels are cheep. Marketing is persuasive. Buyer beware! Are you seriious? Then get a Yamaha FC-31! No I am just kidding! Get what you thing is the best for you!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 2:56:05

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Little Tommy,

Interesting that you posted about the low end Yamaha. I have been hearing good things about it, so I played one at Guitar Center a couple of days ago. You are right, for 350 bucks, it's a heck of a guitar. Not only that, I understand it can be had for $300 if you look around. Pretty amazing when you figure it would cost $200 or so just to buy the raw materials. Lower the saddle and put some good strings on it and you have a great starter. Like you said, it is about the only low end guitar I have even been able to play.

Pat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 5:28:51

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Tom,

I remember discussions at F-T wher people talked about buying a $5,000 guitar like thay were talking about buying a new pair of socks.

It seemed to be the general consensus that a good guitar couldn't be had for less than $2,000. Recently I've seen and heard 3 guitas for under a $1,000 that were quite good. One was a Sanchis Carpio that Richard Parker has. Light as a feather and a terrific sound for the price. The other 2 were made buy a luthier that I had never heard of in San Fernando (Cadiz) named Rafael Romero. So there's no doubt about it, a decent sounding, easy to play guitar can definitely be found for less than a $1,000.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 12:28:49

El Craic

Posts: 164
Joined: Jul. 28 2003
From: Atlantic battered NW Ireland

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

This is all really interesting....the talk about the cheap yamaha caught my attention coz i thought it would be good for parties and sticking in a soft case on my back when biking up the hills to meet my aficionado mates on fridays. that means if i get run over at least i don't have to spill tears over the guitar (hmm..)

As I am going to be in SE England in about a week, i think i might look at one. They won't even consider bringing in any flamenco models in belfast, i asked.

Or...maybe someone in london area has a student guitar they were thinking of letting go to a good home (forget what i said about being run over) ?

Phil, you liked this bloke in Cai? It was suggested that i take a look at his stuff too. Hope to do that maybe next March at Jerez festival.

_____________________________

You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 13:24:24

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Phil)

Phil;

When I wrote my post on the Yahama, I had in the back of my mind some of the exchanges on “another forum”. Not only were there discussions about $5000 guitars that were purchased that week, but the constant exchanging of said instruments on a regular basis. At least one person was a collector – which is one of the reasons your $200 flamenco guitar of say 1963 went to $8000. The models I have in mind (Ramirez and others with “labels” or “names”) that are made today are not as good in the majority of cases.

At the same time I was in a humorous mood and thinking of what we went through in grammar school when we were asked to write a short story about something we did. So I thought I would discuss a good experience with an affordable guitar.

There are some guitars out there that are affordable (comparatively speaking) and do a good job to boot! You have to know what to look for and you should ask a knowledgeable person for help if needed. People will complain about a low-end guitar – how it is made, the woods, etc. Really, it is about playability first, a decent sound, and then check your wallet. I bet anyone who buys a low end Yahama will not only enjoy the instrument but will keep it.

To be honest I have several guitars, which I have collected over the last 45 years. I play each one for a different purpose. I have never gotten rid of any guitar I have owned! It would be like giving away a friend!

It aggravates me to see the price and quality of guitars today. Being on a budget regardless of your age can prevent you from owning and enjoying a guitar.

By the way Richard liked my Ricardo Sanchis Carpio 1 AF extra, which might have helped his decision. The 2 AF is a great instrument, and I almost bought one until I found the 1 AF. Actually, it was Katy who found and bought it. Katy also loved the 2 AF. These models are very nice and do a good job.

There are a number of guitar builders not well known, who do a great job. What ever guitar you own, be happy with it and it will do its best to bring you joy.

I tend to see people that constantly exchange guitars as people who also have unstable social relationships. Let me see how many wives I can collect and exchange this week!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 15:51:35

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Patrick)

Pat;

I was at the Guitar Center where I found the Yahama. By the way the manager of the store I went to was the manager of the Clackamas store, up until a few weeks ago.

Yes, with very little work the Yahama would be a very fine low end instrument. It is easy to play up the neck even with barred chords, and it plays clearly. It does not have the bite of an expensive instrument which could be better for solo guitar playing. At the same time this intrument could be used for accompaniment.

I think some D'Addario EJ 44 Extra Hard Tension strings would bring out any sound the instrument is capable of creating. Even with the cheap strings the guitar comes with it sounds fine.

You could spend a lot more money for a lot less guitar!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 16:02:27

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

El Craic said,

quote:

Phil, you liked this bloke in Cai? It was suggested that i take a look at his stuff too. Hope to do that maybe next March at Jerez festival.

Emma,
I just happened to be around when Manuel had a couple of Romero's guitars at the school. I'm no expert on quality guitars (I've never even played a high end guitar), but I thought that these guitars were very playable and sounded quite good for the price. I think it's worth checking into the next time you're here. Hope you can make it in March.
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 18:04:44

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

The next time you guys are in Sevilla, there was this low end guitar there that I loved. This guy Jose Luis Postigo commissons presumably unknown luthiers to make guitars with his marca (name), and the cheapest one, which was 540 Euros, was really good! It was quite playable, and had a very flamenco sound. This makes sense to me, at least, since I've heard that flamenco guitars sound the way they do, partly, because historically they were made of cheap materials. Postigo also has his guitars up to 2000 Euros, but the only one I liked was the cheap one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2003 18:19:00

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

TOm you are so right about the fact that a good instrument makes ALOT ALOT of difference !

i been playing this guitar i have for years, than one day i picked the other guitarist's in our group guitar , WOW !
i almost felled off my chair , u could do no wrong on that guitar, i swear i was putting the same effort as i would with my guitar but his was coming out twice as fast and twice as laud and twice as melodic.

is one of those guitars that u can just play a chord or anything and this guitar transforms it into beautyfull music.

SO i went out and got a guitar the same model as his, only for some reason my guitar dosent sound as good as his still . ( but is still better than my old guitar)

I think that u can put the best guitarist on a crap guitar and crap sound and u put the average guitarist on a greate guitar , greate sound i think that everyone else except guitarists will acctualy think the the " Average guy is the better guitarist ".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2003 4:02:06

Jefe

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 14 2003

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Regarding the Yamaha CG171SF

With the solid spruce top and cypress sides.. I am betting that in 10 or 20 years the
sound quality will quadruple.. you know as the wood ages and mellows..

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cuando el sol toca la tierra
los ángeles comienzan a cantar
y las mares comienzan a llorar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2003 14:21:42

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: My Day by “Little” Tommy Whi... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Michael, as I was leaving my instructors house last week another one of his students came in and took out his guitar. It was identical to a Ricardo Carpio 1AF Extra negra. So I ask him if that's what it was and he said no, it was a Postigo. Ah ha! Carpio may be one of his builders.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2003 0:53:27