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RE: Solera specs ???
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El Burdo
Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
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 RE: Solera specs ??? (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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Hi Ethan
I would have thought a straight piece of rosewood would completely straighten out a piece of spruce, not slightly change it. I think I'll stick with the contoured base for the moment! My earlier flamenco domed somewhat after playing for a while and I just assumed it was 'inexperienced luthier error'.
This all throws the neck angle into confusion now and I think your conclusion can be the only sensible one. But I would hate to waste that wood if it turns out badly.
My problem at the moment is how much cedar is going to bend additionally under string tension, compared to mahogany for example - in order to calculate the appropriate neck angle? 50% of the calculated angle, say 1mm? 100%?
Do you think placing an ebony, say, strengthener down the middle of the neck - I will have spare ebony after cutting the fingerboard to shape - is a useful way of keeping the neck rigid, or will it also have the effect of making the neck straight, as well as rigid, as opposed to a nice curve which seems more acceptable somehow? It will add mass of course, too, but it would at least limit the natural bend.
I did the calculations suggested by Jeff above.
I think if I have a dome of 3mm plus a bridge saddle height of 8mm, a flat neck and a 6mm fingerboard plus 1mm frets, I'll get a 2mm height from the 12th fret, not taking into account natural neck raising due to string tension, or, now, dome raising! Not bad, maybe a bit close.
If the neck comes up naturally by 2mm at the nut end and the tapa by 1mm more, that's maybe another 2mm at the 12th fret, making it 4mm! Makes me want to angle the neck downwards!!
More information, more confusion. I wish I'd never joined. Or made a guitar.
Sorry, so many questions!
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 31 2012 12:55:43
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Solera specs ??? (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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quote:
traditional Spanish builders leave the bridge flat on the bottom and glue it on by clamping down on the wings from the outside of the guitar, which reduces the doming somewhat.
That's not true. Traditional makers scrape or scraped, depending on if they are dead yet, the underside of the bridge to fit the arch.
You see arch fitted bridges on guitars by makers from Torres to Santos to Barba, etc.
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I agree with John, just built it. But first get yourself a big roll of shelf paper and draw the action an neck angle.
You can answer a lot of questions for yourself if you draw a horizontal line three feet long on a sheet of paper and then tell yourself that is your string.
Then draw a nut where the nut goes and a saddle where the saddle goes.
How high off the top do you want your saddle?
How high do you want the action at the 12th fret?
How high do you want your arch to be?
How far forward do you or do you not have to set your neck in order to arrive at your intended measurements?
The guitar is not a box with strings attached to it. The guitar is a string with a box under it. Design from the string and superimpose your intended box dimensions on the string.
For example, decide you want the arch to be 3mm high and draw the guitar for the side view showing a 3mm arch. Draw the bridge sitting on top of it. Draw the amount you want string height off the top. Draw the string passing over the 12th fret at 3mm high.
What does this tell you about neck angle? If you are confused or unsure? Before you commit to setting the neck angle by gluing on the back, draw it several times until you understand it. Try drawing different arch heights from low to ridiculously high. Sometimes when we "over determine" something we see in high contrast how some thing works or does not work. If you made a drawing of a super high action and then tried to make a neck angle to make that the action work you would get a comical looking and non functional guitar, but it would show you in a dramatic way what is happening and it might be interesting or funny enough to enter your nervous system as a builder. We do really well when we trick ourselves into learning something by being playful. Luthiers are far to dour and uptight. You gotta deal with that ****.
We seem to think that following a set of plans made on a computer CAD program is really clear, but it's not. It is an 'illustration' of what a guitar looks like. A guitar really is a string with a box under it, not a pretty wooden box drawn slickly and impressively by a computer. The old boys like Torres and Manuel Ramirez drew the model with a compass, a T square, and a ruler. They drafted the guitar themselves to understand the arching and action and by pushing the pencil they held in their minds the concept, not an second hand illustration of the concept.
Anyone can build a guitar from a set of plans. But not anyone can draw the guitar from scratch. But when you do the whole architecture of the instrument comes into focus.
A solera is simply the negative image of your hand done drawing of the guitar, only made out of wood. The solera is just an extension of your drawing made manifest in solid form so it can cradle the structure while you create it. Understand the drawing concept of designing the guitar and the solera becomes clear automatically.
I have a student right now who is getting close to finishing his first guitar. I had him draw the whole guitar several times and did not allow him to work from premade drawings. He made most of the basic mistakes on paper and when he got to building the wood the only thing wrong was his lack of experience working with wood. He did pretty well with that considering. His work looks totally Spanish and he gets the concepts which drive the Torres framework for making a guitar.
I even draw things out myself. But drawing it teaches you why things work and it makes your powers of observation of master guitars sharper. You start to see things that they did that are not evident on pre bought plans.
Just saying. Drawing your model inside and out first explains how the solera works and how it should be shaped.
Sorry to be so pedantic.
 
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 31 2012 21:48:12
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