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annemarie

Posts: 44
Joined: Jul. 29 2009
From: Utrecht (Netherlands)

interdisciplinary approach? 
Hi everyone, I was just wondering if some of you guys ever try/tried to study some singing, dancing or cajón, as part of a more interdisciplinary approach to flamenco.

I've started to play the guitar (some of you I know will be pleased to know that I just attempted my first Gerardo Nuñez exercise..), and even though of course I still kind of suck and I won't be starting my career as a soloist any time soon, I think it's very enlightening because it makes you see the art from a different perspective. And it makes you appreciate the hardship of your fellow aficionados, I guess. I also make attempts at playing the cajón and singing, even though the dance is definitely my main thing.

I think it could make the communication between guitarist, singer and dancer easier, because you are more familiar with their points of view.

Of course in Spain, so many singers can play and dance, guitarists can sing and dance and dancers can play and sing...
So what do you guys think? Is it worth all the trouble of learning another discipline?


PS. I personally think all guitarists should be able to do a little pataíta por bulerías, but that's just my humble opinion... :)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2010 21:20:53
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
quote:

...so many singers can play and dance, guitarists can sing and dance and dancers can play and sing...


Yes, definitely a good idea. Dancing is fun and natural, and I think it's the most common of the three activities quoted above (if it's just for fun you can always improvise a dance but you can't fake singing). Singing is the second most common but is the most important of the three. It's difficult to appreciate singing without a solid understanding of the Spanish language, but it's very much worth the effort.

I've got four or five cantes that I try to do sometimes. I think I'm not a very good singer but I don't care. The combination of verse, melody and rhythm is fascinating. I always learn something new when I study recordings of those cantes.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2010 22:42:12
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
Hi Annemarie,

you made me really think here......Once I played a really good guitar, it made me play better.....It cost me 2 or 3 years of practice to sound as good as I sounded instantly with a better guitar.
I did not like that, I was completely satisfied with the guitar I had......

But still, the other guitar made me sound instantly better....So I decided i need a better guitar than I had. I bought one and never had a doubt about it.

I do not get much better with practice nowadays, should singing or even dancing lessons make me a better guitarist?

You made me think here......

Peter.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2010 0:27:09
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
Hey Annemarie,

My first experience of flamenco was dancing - that's where I heard the guitar and thought "wow that's so great I have to do that!". I still take weekly classes and go on intensive courses, even though I now think of myself primarily as a guitar student. No doubt in my mind that dancing helps hugely with compas. I also accompany dance classes and though I'm not a great guitarists I'm able to pick up what they need quite quickly.

Now singing: I've done two workshops here in UK, and wish I could do more, but they are so rarely organised. I really want to learn more cante because all the choreographies and pieces are based around them. I sometimes try to teach myself stuff but it's difficult - trying to learn a Seguiriyas with so much melisma in is hard! I sometimes think "just sing the tune, I'll put my own variations in!". I can sing some Solea and Tangos.

So that's a long way of answering your question - Yes, absolutely!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2010 8:23:55
 
tilsitter

 

Posts: 21
Joined: Jul. 16 2007
 

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
Hi Annemarie,

I think it´s a great idea to get to know those different disciplines. But, as you defined yourself mainly as a dancer and your goal is communication and understanding, I would focus on rythm (Palmas, Cajon) and cante, which define the different palos. You don´t have to sound like a gitano while singing to gain insight into flamenco structure. Its probably the much faster way (as you already have hands and a voice, and ears to listen) than to learn a new instrument and struggle with technique etc. for years to keep the compas. We guitarists have to follow the singer and the dancers anyways, and those little bits of intros and falsettas are more or less easy to distinguish from basic compas (some dancers should learn how a remate sounds on guitar though).

But having fun playing the guitar, is a thing i would understand...
Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2010 15:20:26
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
yes, but it is not easy. Some people start that path and their egos later make them say "look at me I am the singer now...." or whatever. So I it is good to not loose sight of your focus which ever it may be. Many guitarists know more about and maybe sing BETTER then the singers they accompany, but there is still a reason they stick with the guitar as their professional position. Likewise with dancers, I have seen some dancers sing better then the singer they have hired to sing for them....but the roles are clearly definded anyway.


Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2010 18:47:47
 
veet

 

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
Yes, I've studied baile, cante, guitarra, cajon, all - It really helps to know what the other performers' cues and needs are. The interweaving of all parts is where all the power comes from.

O, And don't underestimate the importance of palmas. _Everybody_ needs to know good palmas, dancers, singers, guitarists.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2010 20:35:56
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
yep I have my own Cajón and I play it well, I believe that it helped me to understand the compas clearer in general and play better while someone play the cajon along with me.
imo I don't think that singing or dancing flamenco could improve your skills as a guitarist .. they are totally different.
good luck

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2010 7:22:44
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to annemarie) 
Im not interested in learning to dance, but more to understand and being able to react on things in dance (as a guitarrist). Likewise a dancer does not need to be able to play guitar at all, but an understanding of music, rhythm (subdivisions) and recognition of guitar techniques certainly helps. For my own fun, i think i rather stick to guitar, coz for all the other things im surely not talented enough (except palmas, but palmas are a MUST HAVE for any flamenco anyway).

once i played 2 silencios for a dancer and she preferred the one which is boring. The other one not only was more interesting but also fitted better the dance. And the best thing happened to me was, there was another guitarrist in the room and the dancer showed him a video of JUAN MARTIN as an example what she thought was a "great fandangos"! :-D I could barely hold my laugh i swear... i dont have anything against JM btw! It was just super boring, just sloppy chord strummings, not even well in compas, and the combination of that and the dancers comment was just ridiculous.

ok maybe it sounds snobbish, but im sure if you were a guitarrist and had been there you would have understand it!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2010 14:20:41
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: interdisciplinary approach? (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

It was just super boring, just sloppy chord strummings, not even well in compas


quote:

i dont have anything against JM


you should have!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2010 16:12:52
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