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New Guitar/What is it?
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GUITARMANR
Posts: 9
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
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RE: New Guitar/What is it? (in reply to GUITARMANR)
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Rich; I would have to see the guitar or have an expert examine it. Take this with a grain of salt. The guitar rosette is not one I have seen on a Manuel de la Chica, nor is the label. All the de la Chica’s I have seen and played were French polished. Also, I have not seen a de la Chica with a rosewood fret board – only ebony. The bridge does not look like an original. One more picture would be nice. A picture of the headstock and pegs. I cannot make out the top of the headstock. Each builder has his own headstock design. Again, this instrument would have to be checked by a knowledgeable person. Looking at pictures is not the same as having the instrument in your hands. There is an old joke about Santos guitars. “Of the 400 Santos guitars built, only 1000 remain”. It is not unusual to have knockoffs. For $100 you may well have gotten your moneys worth and then some! It may or may not be a de la Chica, but if it plays well, who cares? Upon looking at the pictures it does remind me of my de la Chica. ................................... Hello Tom, Do you mean to say that someone made a fake label put it on this guitar, and tried to pass it off as an official de la Chica? What a scoundrel! Actually until I posted here I’ve never heard of a de la Chica, so it is all lost on me anyways. The guys at the music store where I bought it did not seem to think much of it, and even poked fun at me for buying it by calling me Estoban. haha As you say for $100 bucks I'm happy with this guitar as it sounds great and plays ok. Now I have to figure out if I want to get that crack on the top fixed. Will likely cost more than the guitar? Once again thanks for your help. Rich
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Date Nov. 22 2005 23:48:10
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Ramon Amira
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
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RE: New Guitar/What is it? (in reply to GUITARMANR)
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Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. This sure looks like the same guitar, so how can it be in two places at once. One explanation that covers the facts is, if this is not the VERY same guitar, but merely the same model etc., then it could be that someone is just faking them, and sticking in labels. The cabeza design is completely different, a sure sign of a fake, and a label is not very hard to forge, although according to Nhills the label is not even the same. Everything points to a forgery, though if it is one it's a pretty feeble attempt, and would not fool anyone, so I just don't get it either. Here is a photo of la Chica's label. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1307465 Ramon
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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
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Date Jul. 21 2010 22:37:21
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Peter Tsiorba
Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest
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RE: New Guitar/What is it? (in reply to GUITARMANR)
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Guitarman, something is not adding up here. I think this whole thread may have been a failed attempt to legitimize a fake, while it is still on ebay. Look at the sap line of the back near the back's center seam. It is the same guitar. The only way to convince me that this is a different guitar, would be to state that the "twin" came from the same flitch-sawn set of tonewood, a very, very unlikely situation. Even if that was the case, the width of the sap line, as well as its shape, would have varied a little. I say this is a scam/sob story that was a little too transparent for its own good. Cheers Guitarman, ebayer, or whoever is trying to scam somebody, whoever you are. I suggest to take an honorable approach, and come clean. Maybe even pull this auction off line before it closed. For all I know, that first bid is by the buddy of the same guy who is trying to sell the guitar. That's my intuition. I smell a rat here.
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Peter Tsiorba Classical-Flamenco-Guitars tsiorba.com
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Date Jul. 22 2010 0:58:12
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Ramon Amira
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
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RE: New Guitar/What is it? (in reply to GUITARMANR)
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It's clearly the same guitar, but Deteresa has pointed out that the original thread was from 2005, so that solves the "in two places at once" business, and also the "in cahoots" business. Probably Guitarman sold it at some point and it wound up with the Ebay guy. It seems to me that the original post was an honest attempt to determine the value – he had no reason to lie back then. It's the Ebay guy who's lying with his touching "Grandmother" story. It really seems improbable that's it's actually a conscious forgery. No forger worthy of the name would come up with a pathetic attempt like that. I did think of one other possibility, though unlikely. Perhaps this was made by de la Chica's son. Many sons of guitarreros follow in their father's footsteps, including famous ones – Manuel Reyes Hijo, Manuel Contreras Hijo, even Barbero's son, though because of Barbero's death he apprenticed with Arcangel Fernandez. And many others. And Guitarman said it sounded "amazing," though I have no way of knowing how good a judge of guitars he is. It really doesn't seem very probable, nor does the forgery idea, but there aren't many explanations why it should have a "de la Chica" label inside. EDIT - I just realized the "Hijo" theory won't work - it was dated 1964.
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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
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Date Jul. 22 2010 2:45:08
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Ramon Amira
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
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RE: New Guitar/What is it? (in reply to GUITARMANR)
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Here are my thoughts on this. 1) It's most certainly the same guitar. 2) It's not any kind of professional forgery – any real forger would do a lot better job than that. 3) The EBAY seller could easily be the original poster – Guitarman. By now he would have figured out that this is not an authentic Manuel de la Chica, and is getting what he can. 4) Whether it's the original poster or someone else who wound up with the guitar after Guitarman figured out it wasn't real and so sold it, either person would not be stupid enough to try to sell it as authentic, knowing that that wouldn't fly. So he sells it on EBAY. Knowing that it's not real, the best thing to do is act naïve and totally in the dark. This is an old ploy that is done with many fakes, most notably with fake antique furniture. The idea is to make some sucker think "Wow, this dumbass doesn't know what he's got there. I can steal this from him for a song." With that in mind, even if it is Guitarman and he knows a bout from a "hump," or anyone else who actually does know guitars, the idea is to make it seem like he doesn't, hence words like "hump," which makes him seem like a bumpkin, and enhances the idea that he doesn't know the value of what he's got. He then buttresses that with that wonderful "Grandmother" line, etc. 5) None of this explains the origin and existence of a patently fake Manuel de la Chica label in a guitar that could not possibly pass as authentic. My theory is that some guitarrero in Barcelona, who couldn't make a name for himself, stuck these labels into his own guitars and either sold them to tourists who wouldn't know a de la Chica from Chico Marx, or possibly provided them to some little guitarreria in Barcelona, who sold them for a commission.
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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
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Date Jul. 25 2010 21:20:33
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