making a silent guitar!

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

making a silent guitar!

...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 1:26:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Hi Yohan,

Not a Luthier I'm afraid..

I think the back will still resonate to a good extent.

Also it's a lot of work!

My experiment would be to slide the saddle bone (plastic) out and fit a piece of rubber strip in there, then file the bone down to suit.

Or even fill the entire slot with rubber and just glue a strip of plastic on top to carry the strings.

Not silent, but the sound will be dramatically reduced for practising late at night without making too much noise.

Personally, I just slide a piece of foam strip under the strings near the bridge.
It's only about 5mm wide so doesn't interfere with your RH.

The guitar's sound is reduced considerably and the advantage is you can use your regular guitar.
Also the sound is very percussive (though quiet) so it really lets you hear the even-ness of rasgueado or alzapua strokes (or even picado etc).

If I need it still quieter, then I just put in a bigger strip of foam.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 3:32:25

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 22 2010 3:58:20

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 3:57:43

bhandras

Posts: 26
Joined: Dec. 23 2009

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Hey Yohan,

just cut a dish sponge in half, and put that under the strings close to the bridge. It will not be completely silent but good enough for home use. I started to use this "technique" recently and now I can exercise in the night

_____________________________

~Andras

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 4:00:55

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Unfortunately, due to my circumstances I have always had to play silently!

In the beginning I didn't know about the spong trick. Therefore I had to play very soft and this resulted in lack of strength in my right hand.

I was over the moon when my teacher introduced me to the piece of spong! I still do my fairly-late-evening practices using the spong and no one complains

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 4:34:53

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

haha, you spongebobs !

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 4:41:11

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

My experiment would be to slide the saddle bone (plastic) out and fit a piece of rubber strip in there, then file the bone down to suit.

Or even fill the entire slot with rubber and just glue a strip of plastic on top to carry the strings.

Not silent, but the sound will be dramatically reduced for practising late at night without making too much noise.

Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 6:58:51

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Thanks I did experiment a little bit with sponge and rubber things, but its not ideal.
And maybe its a lot of work but I like that! I think its fun to make a silent guitar.
I would like to get rid of the soundboard first, is it possible to do that? and how can I do that?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 9:57:18

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Of course you could buy, or make something similar to this "sinsonido" by Aria:
http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=27

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 12:41:37

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

stuff it with a towel

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 12:53:36

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

I want to know what Anders deleted.

Anyway. Try making the saddle out of a chunk of some kind of rubber strip or anything soft, but still hard enough to carry the strings.

Then pack the inside of the guitar with foam peanuts used for packing fragile items. Cram them in there with enough force to fill the lower bout so the back and top do not vibrate. When you get the guitar packed with foam peanuts duct tape the sound hole shut.

You should have something that feels kind of like a guitar that is totally silent.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 13:04:18

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

I can only think of two reasons why anyone might want a silent guitar.
1. A silent guitar stops you annoying other people while enabling you to get pleasure out playing and improve by practice. Sponge or possibly rubber is probably the best as it has least effect on the feel of the guitar. A solid dead guitar doesn’t give pleasure or the necessary feedback to improve your playing.
2. The second reason? OK I am struggling a bit here but here goes.
In the early Showa period (1925-1989), people gathered to listen to the sound of the bloom of a lotus flower at Sinobazu-no-ikepond in the early summer. (The pond is in Ueno Park and is one of the most famous ponds in Tokyo.) However, the frequency of that sound is approximately 9-16 Hz. As we normally hear sounds within a frequency range from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, people were unable to actually hear the sound of the bloom of a lotus flower. But they loved and wanted to listen to that phantom sound. The experience was a kind of communal auditory hallucination (from Soundscape Newsletter No 9). So bring on the silent guitars – let’s have concerts for silent guitars – dancers with sponge soles on their shoes – singers with mouths taped up.
Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 14:07:34

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

quote:

I want to know what Anders deleted.

Why?

Your idea of cutting away the soundboard is a BAD one.
If you want to practice flamenco tecnique, you need the soundboard to do golpes, and to put you thumb on.
Flamenco is about the right hand being in touch with the soundboard.
Thats why we install such a big tapplate.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 23:34:12

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

@anders
Yes I want to replace after the bridge thing is done, I will try make another drawing.
@gj
thanks looks like the yamaha:
this is what I had in mind:

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 0:46:13

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

Ok, good idea. Go ahead and lets have some photos when you´ve finished it.

Dont play it to much though (and play to much with a sponge either) You loose control of tone.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 2:13:21

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?

i found this thing here, i have no experience with it but it looks like it could work. it would be cooler looking if it had some ornate handle

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:20:36

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

I couldnt play with it. It would get in the way on some thumb tecniques.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:40:19

johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

I modified my Yamaha Silent guitar to include two pieces of mahogany for golpes. I also used piezo sensors to the backs of the upper and lower mahogany pieces that go into a preamp that was added to the back of the guitar. This is all fed back into the aux input of the Yamaha so I can adjust the volume of the golpes seperate from sound of the guitar. Here is the original post:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=86778&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=silent&tmode=&smode=&s=#87483

I worked in a factory and the sound levels were high. I would play this on my breaks and could hear everything inspite of 60 to over 100 db ambient sound levels.

_____________________________

Too much is not enough!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2010 5:48:28

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

quote:

@gj
thanks looks like the yamaha:
this is what I had in mind:

Exactly. Both Yamaha and Sansonido models provide both the desired muting and portability for travel. The “sansonido” has the advantage of a more minute size, as it is limited to the length of a fretboard. I am tempted to get one so play it during those long flights, returning from Europe or Asia. It would seem it may fit within the narrow boundaries of a business class seat and perhaps even in couch, particularly if by the window, with some minor and uncomfortable adjustments to one’s playing position (more vertically I would imagine, almost like a Cello). Endless entertainment through arpeggios. scales and chords, far superior to any miniature-screen movie or to conversing with a stranger in a bowling shirt about how frequently he flies to Detroit….

At_Leo: did you custom-fit that one or find it somewhere for sale? It looks perfect, but it could be thinner, much thinner in fact a third of it would suffice in order to avoid interfering with one's right hand (as Anders pointed out).

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2010 6:37:14

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to yohan)

quote:

At_Leo: did you custom-fit that one or find it somewhere for sale? It looks perfect, but it could be thinner, much thinner in fact a third of it would suffice in order to avoid interfering with one's right hand (as Anders pointed out).

hey gj, it's not actually mine, i just found a picture of it here:
http://en.woodbrass.com/POCK+MUTE+FOR+CLASSICAL+GUITAR

it looks like something that could be a diy project. i agree, it doesn't need to be so big unless that adds to the muting effect.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2010 6:53:07

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to at_leo_87)

Damn...Only guitarists would be nuts enough to pay over €22 (inc shipping) for a little piece of foam rubber.

The gizmo market is clearly pretty lucrative!

How about a "golpe mute" as well?..(thin piece of rubber sheet which sticks to the tap plate) €39.99

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2010 7:13:29

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Damn...Only guitarists would be nuts enough to pay over €22 (inc shipping) for a little piece of foam rubber.

I wonder if anyone bought (into) it...

At_Leo... yes it could be a pretty project with some creativity I am sure you could forge some attractive string-muting-device.

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2010 7:40:56

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 18 2011 17:50:34

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2010 2:51:31

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: making a silent guitar! (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:

Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?

i found this thing here, i have no experience with it but it looks like it could work. it would be cooler looking if it had some ornate handle
http://en.woodbrass.com/images/woodbrass/POCK.JPG

Heh. That looks a bit like that thing girls use to separate their toes when they get pedicures.

In fact, if you go to the dollar store you can see them. I think there are a few products at the dollar store of similar materials... buy something like it and cut it so it fits snugly under the strings at the bridge. Most golpeadores cover that and now it doesn't get in the way of the hand.

As for the silent guitar... isn't it really just an electric? Couldn't one scavenge some crap electrics to make what they need?

_____________________________

Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2010 9:49:12