RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

The poligonos are in general dirty, falling apart, noisy. Many drugs. Burned cars, lots of gipsy rumba, unemployed people (or neveremployed people).

So.. basically not that much different from certain areas in UK cities..(except the rumba bit)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:14:56

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron you bad man ! its all clean here up north!! just make sur your in doors before 4pm, its dark anyhow!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:21:03

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

flip i realised ive been unemployed for 6 months!!

eccccccch

.

back to guitar, must break into tescos and morrisons today! ,need some chorizo and eggs

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:22:15

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Phrygian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phrygian

Hi Kate!

Did they actually live in caves up to the 70's?

Many still do if their houses were not affected or they had the money to do them up after the flood. Some caves are very basic, no electricity or water and these days are inhabited by drunks and euro hippies, the locals call them black feet as they dont wash. Other caves have all the amenities and, as they put up a 'front' on the caves from the outside they look like normal houses. Other caves are turned into bars and flamenco tabloas. Various members of the Habichuela family still have many caves there. The caves can go deep into the hill and have many rooms as you can see if you go to any of the Flamenco tablaos there.

One christmas day Harold and I took some friends up to the top of the Sacromonte to watch the sunset and were invited into a very basic cave with straw on the floor and animals lying around. Juan and his wife were just 16 and had come from Valencia to look for work/housing. They had just had a baby who was there lying on the straw. It was scene straight out of a nativity play.

Juan and his family have since been rehoused in Almanjayar and they were very happy about that, as were the gitanos who were rehoused back in the 70s, at the time preferring modern apartments to cave living. Of course now that caves on the Sacromonte can command 300,000 euros or more with their fabulous views of the city and Alhambra below I know people in Almanjayar who regret their families did not stay there.

One of these days will go up there and take photos to post on the foro for every one to see.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:25:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

recently i saw a documentary about gypsies in hungary and romania, and i would guess (just guess) that those "poligonos" i saw in that docu are a good deal worse than anything in spain or elsewhere. those were really unhuman conditions.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:29:42

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to minordjango)

quote:

Ron you bad man ! its all clean here up north!! just make sur your in doors before 4pm, its dark anyhow!

MD.

In the "good old days" there were certain places that were not advisable to go after dark.

But these days there are places you wouldn't want to find yourself in broad daylight!

I'm not joking!

Even the Ambulances or Fire Brigade won't go to certain areas without a Police escort!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:48:41

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

recently i saw a documentary about gypsies in hungary and romania, and i would guess (just guess) that those "poligonos" i saw in that docu are a good deal worse than anything in spain or elsewhere. those were really unhuman conditions.

Absolutely right there, the Cale Gypsies in Spain, as hard as many of their lives are and although there is still a lot of prejudice, have far better living conditions than the Roma Gypsies in Hungary or Romania. Only a few years back a Romanian Government Minister said the Gypsies there were sub human which quite rightly attracted outrage. Whilst there is still prejudice in Spain and still poverty amongst the Gitanos there are also Gitanos in all walks of life who are integrated and have been settled for centuries. There is a vast difference between the Roma and the Cale and no love lost between them either.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 5:56:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Kate)

i took these photos down from alhambra

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 6:31:32

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

Why delete it Anders?

When it could perhaps be a good lesson for others thinking of embarking on the same strategy.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 6:32:37

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Arash)

few more from up there

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 6:38:47

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

arash i remember all those places , just terrific! some duende all around that city, i remember taking an loaned Alhambra 7fc modelo and sitting up the top of the old albacin and well..........just breathing ,strumming a few chords, look over granada and think........lifes good

then go out to a pena and drink too much , next day not so good !! hehe

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:01:59

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Arash)

Great Pics Arash, you just missed my house though

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:02:34

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Ambulances or Fire Brigade won't go to certain areas without a Police escort

we talking of nth Ireland now ?

actually Ron seriously the crime is on the up here, just 3 nights a go a group 10 youths, , pretended they were police trying to smash the door in , ended up throwing a brick through the window, and ran off (house across the way, watched it all.

and going out one night with my lady, beer in hand , and a bunch (4 lads) said give m all your money, i said no way jose!, then they said we are not joking, then i spoke to them in another language and said must go...........draggin a petrified lady with me, but i gave them my beer

but regardless i love the north of England here, the locals are fantastic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:06:53

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to minordjango)

quote:

we talking of nth Ireland now ?

MD,

Nope... although I understand that some years ago in N.Ireland even the Police wouldn't go to certain areas without an Army escort!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 7:48:07

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to XXX)

quote:

In an art form, I see absolutely no place for violence. If he got a knife in his ribs then not because of flamenco

You are right. I wasnt trying to suggest that flamenco artists are violent but I was suggesting that being loudmouthed, disrespectful and arrogant in a Gypsy poligono or shanty is a bad idea that can get you into trouble and certainly wont help you make friends.
Im sorry you found the story discusting. I meant it to be a reality check. Going into dodgy places where the police dont go and acting inapropriately is dangerous. Personally I wouldnt dream of going into unemployed, run down neighbourhood in Chicago, saying that I was a better rap artist than snoop dogg and then shout racist abuse at the locals. It would be fair to say there is a danger of getting shot. Thats not a prejudice comment, or a stereotypical way of thinking....its a reality.
The same is true in the poligonos. I've been lots of times with friends who have been really kind and shown me the areas and offered me food, drink and the chance to participate in juergas with their families and I have never had any problems. Saying that I have always been very respectful of where I am and been honoured to see ways of life that a lot of people never get to see.

My comments were supposed to be helpful. If you are lucky enough to get the chance to see real flamenco in those environments...drop the attitude, be humble and dont insult the artists. Its common sense. The consequences of upsetting people in those situations is much more serious, thats all i was trying to say.

quote:

Fortunately, where I live, the flamenco scene is much broader than in Granada and you dont have to expose yourself to this kind of behaviour

Actually I was talking about Madrid.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 8:03:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Personally I wouldnt dream of going into unemployed, run down neighbourhood in Chicago, saying that I was a better rap artist than snoop dogg and then shout racist abuse at the locals.

Jeez Pim!

That's almost as risky as going into a Rangers pub with a Celtic scarf on!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 8:27:39

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

your right pimi thats holds true anywhere id say, also interesting to read some stories.

pimi - i just realized you transcribe the zapateado im looking at great stuff!

pi
yeah Ron i went through Nth Ireland with a friend they told me all the history and all about how they had special police vechicals , and that the locals were segregated and lots of sh ite was going on , i still vaguely remember it on the news.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 8:43:33

Phrygian

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
From: Sweden

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Kate)

Ok thanks that's interesting do you know where this is filmed? The two movies i seen by Tony Gatlif they play mainly Rumbas are these from the Polignos?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 9:37:14

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Kate)

Moved to off-topic, away from the wide-screen!

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=135203&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#135203

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 10:51:33

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

I think evan left the foro

so there will be no video's I guess

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 11:16:45

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

I think evan left the foro so there will be no video's I guess

at least there will be no arguing any more

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 11:20:10

agent_zuz

Posts: 2
Joined: Apr. 22 2010

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

Hello everyone, I'm Zuz, Evan's agent. I am uploading videos to youtube right now. Evan made a ton.

Zuz

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 12:26:22

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

at least there will be no arguing any more

LOL....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 12:28:39

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Hello everyone, I'm Zuz, Evan's agent. I am uploading videos to youtube right now. Evan made a ton.

Zuz

Just when I thought the thread had fizzled into agreeable pleasantries, along comes a twist in the story.

Got a link...?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 12:34:40

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to Ron.M)

i am agent arash and i am faster than agent zuz, here you go

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 12:41:14

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: @ GuitarristaMadrid (in reply to agent_zuz)

quote:

Hello everyone, I'm Zuz, Evan's agent. I am uploading videos to youtube right now. Evan made a ton.

Zuz

Oh dear, it's the old Prof. Diaz trick. Evan, you are banned for adopting three different identities to deceive the forum, in contravention of the reasonable agreement you signed up to.

A pathetic example to all foreign guitarists who have lived in Spain, like me.

Hasta que se te acabe el dinero, tio.

This thread is now locked.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2010 12:43:50