RE: Hey let's all just replicate Paco's style. Or not

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guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I can see why you would want to give up

Do you mean to say, "I can see why I would want to give up , were I in your shoes?"

Cause I'm playing hours a day, and posting tons of things, and exchanging emails, and making a million different exercises and videos to show people what I have learned in my years-long quest here. I am taking on even more challenges than I did when I just played guitar eight hours a day. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

quote:

Your compositions bear no resemblance to Flamenco.

Damn right, cause they are original pieces of music. And they are the result of all these damn painful and beautiful and profound years of my life.

That being said, "Space nor Time" clearly rips off a bunch of common flamenco tricks.

What I am searching for is something deep within myself, the same thing I have been searching for ever since I touched a guitar when I was 15. And flamenco is definitely a stage on that journey, but it is most certainly not the end.

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2010 17:04:11

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

go practice more. be that next sh*t.

you complain a lot.

go do. quit telling us what to do.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2010 18:18:14

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Damn right, cause they are original pieces of music. And they are the result of all these damn painful and beautiful and profound years of my life.

I think you are a cool composer. It would be even cooler to see your creativity applied to Flamenco (something with compas). Since you're so concerned about everyone in Flamenco sounding a certain way why don't you use all the Flamenco techniques that you learned and try to make your mark on that genre?
I think there are too many people doing similar things to you in the "contemporary classical" world. i just want to see what you would do por Bulerias, Solea, Seguiriyas, whatever.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2010 18:24:41

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

p.s. i just used a solea combined with break downs and panic chords to make the first death core flamenco fusion. new enough for you?

not all fusions are good ideas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2010 18:39:36

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Vicente is a big fish in a small pond. The standard of flamenco composition is low.

And as to your definition of "arrogance", I would argue that it's only arrogance if you can't back it up. If you can, it's called "realism".

So get back to me 20 years, and let's see what I'm composing then.

saying things like this when your not that good yourself is imo arrogance.
maybe you can back it up over 20 years, but maybe not.
So until you are not sure about that, stop complaining about other great flamenco flamenco guitarist.
please remember that when vicente was 20 years old he already had his own flamenco style and beautiful flamenco compositions, that were very original and progressive.
of course he didn't compose fugue's, flamenco guitarist dont do that.so please stop comparing flamenco to bach, its hilarious and it doesn't make any sense
Maybe is flamenco not your type op music, its seem you don't really like it at all.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 0:13:30

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarristamadrid
And flamenco is definitely a stage on that journey, but it is most certainly not the end.

well, thats ok, but then your goal is not to be better than paco, but be better than yourself.

i mean for most of us, flamenco is not just a stage.
flamenco is the journey AND the end at the same time.
its everything. meaning that our goal is to try to explore flamenco in all its facets, learn it, master it, improvise with it, etc. but don't leave it.

thats what paco and all the others you mentioned do.

if you want to be better than them, then you must play the same game and not invent a new game.

if you just learn some techniques and use them somewhere else (outside the structure, which is compas and all that stuff), then thats not flamenco anymore. its OK but not flamenco.

that said, i would even be interested and accept to see someone inventing a new palo with interesting rythm structures, or
something like that as a revolutionary act.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 0:16:21

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

well, thats ok, but then your goal is not to be better than paco, but be better than yourself.

... dude that's exactly what I said earlier in the thread.

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 0:25:58

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

Hi guys! A quick note. The point of this thread was to say let's reach higher, let's go deeper, let's not just stop at doing what others have done. And when people said "But that's impossible" I gave some examples of how we could do it.

To all those who sent me enthusiastic messages, yes! You get the idea.

To those who are criticizing my own music, I'm glad you're showing signs of life! Now just take that energy and apply it to actually creating something yourself.

That's what I do.

I'll see you on the other side...

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 0:53:41

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

go practice more. be that next sh*t.

Isn't it clear that that is exactly what I'm doing.

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 0:57:13

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to yohan)

Yohan imagine someone who had the technique of Paco, yet also used their pinky in arpeggios and a few other technical innovations. Now imagine they had a level of compositional skill more comparable to a classic composer, i.e. someone who spent as much time studying the art of composition as Paco spent practicing picado. Now imagine that person composing and performing music both within and outside of the existing flamenco structures, and ultimately creating an incredibly advanced form of music no one had ever heard before, that could be appreciated not only by flamencos but by all people of the world.

Now get this: believe it or not, but I work every single day to become that person. I am studying composition. I have been studying flamenco hardcore with El Entri for years to the point that he uses me as an example of discipline and persistence. I am playing gigs and struggling to pay the rent with my music. I am composing and creating my own songs, as you can see. And I am not hesitating to put that music out there into the world, despite the criticism such a bold mission as I have will surely receive.

And now I am even uploading exercises to this forum, and helping people with technique. What I am trying to do here is rally others to join me on the path.

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 1:14:30

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

Hey buddy, try to chill, no one is criticizing your music or your desire to make it. Just the opposite. But maybe you should be joining a motivational/self-help forum instead of a Flamenco one?
You're underestimating the community here, we have passion, we create, we love what we do as much as you do if not more, and honestly a lot of players here are way better than you

so just chill and maybe you will learn something that will help you with your music

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:14:30

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

in fact those better players here have been extremely helpful too sharing their knowledge and experiences...i've been around here since i started playing flamenco and it's been invaluable...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:22:28

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

you should be joining a motivational/self-help forum

Dude I could probably start my own, people always say "you should be a motivational speaker"

quote:

we have passion, we create, we love what we do as much as you

**** yeah son, that's what you should have been saying all along!!!

quote:

a lot of players here are way better than you

Uh let's not take this too far internet cowboys
lol

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:33:17

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

.i've been around here since i started playing flamenco and it's been invaluable...

Hell yeah son like it or not the internet is the new international home. That's what I've been trying to tell the canorroto guys for years, PROMOTE YOURSELVES ONLINE. Now they finally made a youtube page, but they ain't doing much with it.

Now let's all play some guitar motherfuckaz!!

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:37:43

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

Rock on, dude.

quote:

Dude I could probably start my own, people always say "you should be a motivational speaker"

Do you live in a van down by the river?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:42:48

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Do you live in a van down by the river?

I will soon if I don't rip myself away from these addictive flame wars and start practicing for my gigs

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:52:27

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

p.s. bach never did anything new. He was a straggler in his time, writing music of yesteryear til the end of his days. He was not well liked really and he certainly didnt invent anything new. He wrote fugues because that was his thing. Ultimately for originality and timely consideration of what decade he was in = -110000 points. for doing something that had been done for nigh on a hundred years til it was done to death = +5 million.

Bach was no hero. no innovator. just a guy who could write multi part harmonies in his sleep. Notice, his rhythmic complexity will put you to sleep, because it is non existent.

shut up. go practice.

This isn't the "I'm going to change the world, new music composer's forum" this is a forum for flamenco enthusiasts. ENTHUSIASTS. I can see you are enthusiastic, channel that into something that won't p*ss us all off.

Practice that and maybe i'll decide to start listening to what you say.

Go practice more, complain less.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:53:58

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

Bach sucked blah blah blah

Dude... are you actually trying to base your argument on an attack of Bach's compositional abilities. www.comedyforum.com

_____________________________

Sometimes music is all you got in this world. Why do I create music? Because there was a time when I had nothing, and music kept me alive.

www.myspace.com/evancary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 4:58:12

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

I think it's time to stop feeding the troll.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 5:05:26

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

I will make a video tomorrow. It will be a video.

I will make it tomorrow.

[Ailsa:]
But Todd will you be in the video or will you just make it? The one you will make tomorrow.

It'd be allright with me either way - one of the first things I saw on this forum (iirc) was a nice video that Todd made of his dog in the back yard (or was that Gabe's? Maybe Todd's was scenes around town; either way, it was nice). Something like that would be a refreshing change from all the pointless arguments that have been breaking out recently.

Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, next month or next year, whenever. The video. The one he will make. Or not.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 7:37:48

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

all the pointless arguments that have been breaking out recently.

Occasionally we witness the delusional flights of a new self declared messiah claiming to be the Best… which puzzles me to no end, since it should be rather clear by now that I am the Best!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 7:42:53

Phrygian

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
From: Sweden

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Occasionally we witness the delusional flights of a new self declared messiah claiming to be the Best… which puzzles me to no end, since it should be rather clear by now that I am the Best!!

I don't agree i am the best and as a matter of fact i will prove it to you by posting a video someday!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 7:47:40

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Phrygian)

quote:

I don't agree i am the best and as a matter of fact i will prove it to you by posting a video someday!

You’ve got it, doll, but I am not going to let you have it easy. Ain’t no room for more than one best American grown flamenco **s
No one draws as fast as I do, doll

Let’s unravel this on Christmas , I say…. but not this Christmas necessarily.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 7:57:19

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Phrygian)

quote:

I don't agree i am the best and as a matter of fact i will prove it to you by posting a video someday!

Sorry, Phrygian, gj is the Best, and I (for one) will follow Him. (for now...at least until Tuesday. Maybe.)

But of course, you're welcome to start your own cult.

"Well I say he is the messiah...and I should know - I've followed a few!"

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 8:35:39

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

for now...at least until Tuesday. Maybe.

Oh the short lived wavering faith. A weekly whim, a fragile, transient fashion trend soon to collect dust, a vestigial reminder of how little greatness can be.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 8:54:52

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Estevan)

"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 9:29:27

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Ailsa)

"Now leave that Welsh tart alone!"

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 9:37:42

Phrygian

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
From: Sweden

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

You’ve got it, doll, but I am not going to let you have it easy. Ain’t no room for more than one best American grown flamenco **s
No one draws as fast as I do, doll

Let’s unravel this on Christmas , I say…. but not this Christmas necessarily.

Ok maybe you're the best American grown flamenco but internationally it's me, and by the way i am a Swede who resent's being called a "doll" it's Maestro Phrygian for you at least until we get to know each other beter sweetie ;-)

quote:

Sorry, Phrygian, gj is the Best, and I (for one) will follow Him. (for now...at least until Tuesday. Maybe.)

But of course, you're welcome to start your own cult.

"Well I say he is the messiah...and I should know - I've followed a few!

In my cult it's allowed to smoke drink and fornicate interested in switching sides?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 9:55:30

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to Phrygian)

quote:

In my cult it's allowed to smoke drink and fornicate interested in switching sides?

But I never join cults that place restrictions on those fundamental activities, so there's no need to switch (until at least Tuesday). Your cult sounds like a good one, though, I'm sure you can find some followers here.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2010 10:04:23

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Hey let's all just replicate Pac... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

p.s. bach never did anything new. He was a straggler in his time, writing music of yesteryear til the end of his days. He was not well liked really and he certainly didnt invent anything new. He wrote fugues because that was his thing. Ultimately for originality and timely consideration of what decade he was in = -110000 points. for doing something that had been done for nigh on a hundred years til it was done to death = +5 million.

Bach was no hero. no innovator. just a guy who could write multi part harmonies in his sleep. Notice, his rhythmic complexity will put you to sleep, because it is non existent.

Don't agree with you at all hemeolaman except for the " just a guy who could write multi part harmonies in his sleep" bit. He composed more than 3000 multi-part harmony pieces, and those have been studied by every composer since his time, composers study Bach like we here study PDL. Musicians are made or celebrated by how well they play his compositions.
When it comes to composition Bach is the most perfect composer. PERFECT, not one bad or unnecessary note.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2010 16:11:12