RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe

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Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

I think Paco buys guitars like we do

Is that something you know or it's wishful thinking?
Paco is famous for not paying for the guitars he plays.

Haven't you heard the story of him trying to take a Gerundino without paying for it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 7:12:44

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
Haven't you heard the story of him trying to take a Gerundino without paying for it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 7:18:29

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

I haven't heard that story either, but even if it were true it wouldn't change anything. I'm still interested in a good story though!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 7:35:12

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

Check kovachian.

I edited my post. See above. I agree with you in many points.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 7:40:59

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

I quote Sean from another thread:

The is an amusing anecdote about the day that El Maestro arrived at Gerundino´s house to try his guitars. He was attended by Eladio, who was, more or less, Gerundino´s business manager When he had selected a guitar, Eladio insisted that he should pay at least the cost of the materials. El Maestro paid the quantity required and left saying "esta el la primera guitarra que yo pago".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 7:44:11

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Nice story Mike, thanks. Well, Lester Devoe is now costructing

a blanca for Maestro Paco De Lucia, maybe Paco is paying this time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 8:29:08

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

Lester Devoe is now costructing a blanca for Maestro Paco De Lucia, maybe Paco is paying this time.

I would doubt that he does. And I would put money on it that Vicente doesn't pay either. Why would DeVoe charge them? When you have two of the best players in the world playing and recording with your guitars, it's the best and cheapest advertising you can get.

He is a very prolific builder. I think he turns out about 20 guitars a year. assuming he gets paid for all of them at a bit over $6,000, after expenses (paying Paco and Vicente

), he may make close to $100,000 a year. For a guitar builder, that's big dough, but remember he lives in California, one of the most expensive places on the planet to live.

Ruck is a machine. He cranks out something like 30 a year, which is unreal. His wife is his only helper. He told me he puts in less than 40 hours a week to do it. He said he runs his business like a small manufacturing plant. He even builds his on rosettes and bindings. I don't think he gets anymore than DeVoe. So 30 at $6,000, minus expenses, he may be around 150k a year. Big dough, but that's for two people and he's considered a living legand. Mid level managers in the US make that or more.

Not a business to go into to get rich.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 9:08:04

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

Not a business to go into to get rich.

I would be so happy making 100.000$ a year... At the moment as phd-student I get just a little bit more than unemployed people get from the state. At least if I dont get a job after finishing my phd it wouldnt change much...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 9:25:27

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I would be so happy making 100.000$ a year... At the moment as phd-student I get just a little bit more than unemployed people get from the state. At least if I dont get a job after finishing my phd it wouldnt change much...

So soon you are going to be Dr. Doit? What's the subject of your thesis?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 9:42:35

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

And I would put money on it that Vicente doesn't pay either

ok, I take the bet, $100 ? I say Vicente pays for his guitars.

Ask Lester Devoe.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 9:47:57

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Interesting Patrick, so you say Amigo and Paco de Lucia likely get free Devoes. Really? Who else could get free guitars? Paco Cepero? Moraito? Tomatito? Anton Jimenez? It's been said that lutherie is not a business to go into to get rich, yet some people seem to think that a few builders are so flush with cash money that they can afford to give away free guitars.

So let's hear it from all you luthiers of Foro Flamenco-- if any of you are approached to make one free guitar for someone famous, do you do it? Do you make just one? Or two? Where do you draw the line between getting some publicity, and forgoing the funds to pay your bills?

I've emailed Lester. Maybe he'll respond, maybe not. And if so, maybe it won't be to answer the speculation here but instead to tell me to buzz off. Can't hurt to ask right?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 11:21:11

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

I know, for sure (i mean people etc), this happens in Greece. Some first class players (and some not so) DO TAKE free bouzoukis, and i also know some luthiers PAY to give bouzoukis to them.
So, considering the fact that flamenco players are more famous and have a higher recognicion, i can only be absolutely certain that famous players take free instruments.

In the case of Paco, perhaps he payed for a Lester De Voe, because the guitar he bought was SO MUCH BETTER than ANYTHING he ever put his hands on, and after BEGGING for a free guitar he might just ended buying it.

perhaps...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 11:37:23

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

Interesting Patrick, so you say Amigo and Paco de Lucia likely get free Devoes. Really? Who else could get free guitars? Paco Cepero? Moraito? Tomatito? Anton Jimenez? It's been said that lutherie is not a business to go into to get rich, yet some people seem to think that a few builders are so flush with cash money that they can afford to give away free guitars.

I have heard enough stories to think that it's a trend.

If Tom Blackshear was here I'm sure he would tell us some stories confirming this trend.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 11:53:52

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

ok, I take the bet, $100 ? I say Vicente pays for his guitars.

Well, maybe $10

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 13:03:56

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

Interesting Patrick, so you say Amigo and Paco de Lucia likely get free Devoes. Really? Who else could get free guitars? Paco Cepero? Moraito? Tomatito? Anton Jimenez? It's been said that lutherie is not a business to go into to get rich, yet some people seem to think that a few builders are so flush with cash money that they can afford to give away free guitars.

It's speculation only. I dought DeVoe would even take their money even if they offered it. The free advertising is priceless.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 13:06:10

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

I would be so happy making 100.000$ a year...

Keep in mind, these are likely two of the highest earning builders in the world. Most are happy to just scratch out a living.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 13:09:05

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

Mmmmm, DeVoes are beautiful guitars. My teacher, Val Ramos, owns one of his negras, says it's the best guitar he's ever played. I can see why. Beautiful tone, smooth to play on.... but oh so damn expensive....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2010 22:41:23

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

I've emailed Lester. Maybe he'll respond, maybe not

So, did he answer? .

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 5:08:05

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Adam)

quote:

Beautiful tone, smooth to play on.... but oh so damn expensive....

But maybe not so expensive if you compare with some other luthiers,

look at Manuel Reyes junior, he is currently charging €8500 =$11560

and Lester is charging $6500 . Blanca guitars I am not certain but I am

99% sure flamenca negra made by Lester Devoe is more value for money

compared to Reyes Junior.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 5:15:05

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

quote:

So, did he answer?

Yup, earlier today:

quote:

Thanks for your inquiry. I have heard about the speculations of some of the forum contributors. Those who know me know I am follower of Jesus doing my best to honor the Lord in all my actions. Neither I nor anyone else has ever paid an artist to play my guitars. Guitarists of the caliber of Paco and Vicente take on stage only guitars that are comfortable and responsive. I do not think they would "sell out" for money. I have no endorsement deals with either of these great artists. Currently, I am working on guitar number 6 for Vicente and will be building a new blanca guitar for Paco in my next set. Both of these fine gentleman have been personal friends of mine for many years.
Yours sincerely,
Lester

Well, that essentially takes the "he pays so-and-so" nonsense and shoots it straight to the Moon, doesn't it?

I figured so.

And he said, "the forum contributors". I might be wrong, but I think he lurks around here. I hope he doesn't mind me letting others read his reply.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 12:59:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

I often wondered about this, and I think there is no "trend" but it depends on the luthier. We know paco has stated he got a free guitar as a youngster, and my guess is he never paid for a guitar as the anecdote says. About not as famous guitarists like lets say, Nuñez...

I was there in Sanlucar when Robert Ruck GAVE his own personal flamenco guitar that he used in the course, to gerardo for FREE. Gerardo was beside himself and said he was never given a guitar before. Not sure about the Marvi guitar, perhaps he paid very little for it as Doit said, I thought he was given that one too to be honest. I know Gerardo waited years for a Reyes (Reyes said in an interview even Vicente was not permitted to jump in line, and he recommend to vicente to buy 2 of em for that reason, incase something happened to one![;). I assume both guys did not pay top dollar but got a discount of some kind being stars. Gerardo did NOT like his Reyes and sold it, but I got to hear him play it).

Regarding Ruck, he did not need to do this for money or advertising, because he has a long waiting list anyway. I think he did it because he was simply proud to see this guy using his instrument, and Ruck is famous for classicals but loves flamenco more I think. Just like Ramirez and Segovia.

Every year Ruck came back with a new instrument, and I think gerardo exchanged each time but the last time, wanting to keep the blanca he uses in Saura's Iberia. Gerardo did NOT use it for advertising Ruck, but because he really liked that guitar, and probably wanted to repay him for the gift, nothing more.

I personally feel that regarding Paco, a Luthier should be fine giving an instrument for free for the same reason, not advertising etc, but for prestige. Only reason for a luthier to charge paco I feel would be because he needed the money honestly, or was just very arrogant about his own work, that a guitar is somehow more then the player. I feel Reyes was established enough not to need to give any guitars to anybody.... in a way his "arrogance" is backed up if you understand what I mean. Same goes for makers like Arcangel Fernandez....and even Conde don't need to be giving free guitars NOW, although they did in the past. But other makers not so famous probably should be proud to get an instrument in Paco's hands.

We can ask Anders opinion.... would he give a guitar to Paco today for free if Paco wanted one????

Ok just my 2 bits.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 13:00:44

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

Well, maybe $10

hey man, $10 for me

you can donate it to a charity.

I knew it, Lester is a legend, I am saving my money for my next guitar

that will be a Lester Devoe flamenca negra.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2010 21:02:54

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

I imagine it will take a lot of time

quote:

ORIGINAL: buleria74
I knew it, Lester is a legend, I am saving my money for my next guitar

that will be a Lester Devoe flamenca negra.

1.to save the money (depends on you)

2.to wait the man to finish the amigo guitar and all the ones before that one.

3.the paco guitar and all the guitars between vicente and paco's

4.the construction time of your own guitar

5.the time for all guitars between paco's and your's

6.the construction time for any other guitar between the last guitar he has scheduled now, and yours, because with paco playing one, he will have many requests.

And all this supposing the man keeps making guitars for the decades to come.

Assuming all this, and considering he would like to make only good guitars (sweet timbric colors and so on) => 10-20 guitars a year at max (perhaps)=>
You might NEVER get a guitar from him

And if you get one, it will be in like 10-20 years

You better settle for a less prestigious make in order to have something to play

imo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 6:30:51

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to kovachian)

OK. Lester says quite clearly that he doesn't pay guitarists to use his guitars, but he didn't rule out giving them away for FREE. His response is not clear there. Not sure what Jesus has to do with it, but Jesus would give them away on occassion no doubt.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:00:40

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to stratos13)

quote:

1.to save the money (depends on you)
2.to wait the man to finish the amigo guitar and all the ones before that one.
3.the paco guitar and all the guitars between vicente and paco's
4.the construction time of your own guitar
5.the time for all guitars between paco's and your's
6.the construction time for any other guitar between the last guitar he has scheduled now, and yours, because with paco playing one, he will have many requests.

And all this supposing the man keeps making guitars for the decades to come.

Assuming all this, and considering he would like to make only good guitars (sweet timbric colors and so on) => 10-20 guitars a year at max (perhaps)=>
You might NEVER get a guitar from him
And if you get one, it will be in like 10-20 years

You better settle for a less prestigious make in order to have something to play
imo

I can hope

.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:18:37

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

but he didn't rule out giving them away for FREE.

I'm trying to imagine a guitar stuffed inside a large brown envelope and left in a railway station left-luggage box.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:28:03

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

OK. Lester says quite clearly that he doesn't pay guitarists to use his guitars, but he didn't rule out giving them away for FREE. His response is not clear there.

Lester Devoe is an honnest man who makes great instruments, he doesn't need to give away free guitars. If he did he would have said it.

I can hardly believe that Maestro Paco is the type who plays an instrumnet
on stage for money or because he got it free. He plays top instruments
according to his personal standards.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:28:06

CuerdasDulces

Posts: 277
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Toronto

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

If you want a free guitar to play on stage contact Andelusional Guitars.
Of course, they will want your Foroflamenco account in exchange.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:46:12

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

I just wanted to point out in my obtuse way that you did not win the $10 bet, because Lester did not rule out giving them away for free. He said he would not pay someone to play his guitars. He was vague, I believe intentionally. But that is my opinion. I don't care either way. You need to ask yourself why you care so much!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 8:54:45

hobersmith

Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 21 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

It's amazing how much fuzz the simple fact that Paco got bored of Conde and decided to play something else could create.

Imagine what it would be like if he'd play Bernabe :P.

Personally i find it refreshing to see him play something else too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 9:51:20