Playing question - rasgueados

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Stoney

Posts: 132
Joined: Nov. 6 2009

Playing question - rasgueados

So I am happy to report that after finally getting a relatively acceptable Flamenco guitar on Dec. 23 I've more or less gotten back about 75% ot the Palos that I had 10 years ago when I drifted away from Flamenco.

It has been 2 months since I really started to put the pedal to the metal, practicing at least 2 hours a day (weather permitting cause the houses are cold here in Northern Mexico when it is cold outside)

Finished working through the JM book last night. Considering that it took me about 2 years the first time, 2 months isn't too bad.

Where I discover I have a problem is with the rasgueados. It is affecting my compas.

Some 4 or 5 stroke rasgueados tend to be more for affect and not a internal part of the compas, similar to the way Mexican guitarists play. They just cover one beat. No problem there.

However, when the 4 or 5 strokes need to be internal to the compas, for example in Juan Martin's method for Bulerias you play a 5 stroke starting on the 9 with the final up-stroke on the 10, golpe on 11 and back to A on the 12.

If the 5 stroke isn't dead even you will rush or slow down the compas. Bummer.

So I'm implimenting a regimen of practice in that area. First I work on playing a very "Airy" bulerias with very few rasgueados, using the compas software I downloaded from this site (great work whoever created that one).

Secondly I am following the Gerrardo Nunez vid and practicing his arpeggio and picado style, in the hopes that aside from perfecting those techniquess, I will also strengthen the fingers of the right hand and in turn improve my rasgueados.

Thirdly, I am doing strict rasgueado practice trying to get them more even.

Any guidance in this area would be appreciated.

Also, a question. In the Nunez video he demonstrates his 3 and 4 Stroke rasgueados, leaving the pinky completely out of it. So does he do 5 stroke rasgueados and if so, how?

Stoney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2010 5:10:00

Randal

Posts: 63
Joined: Jan. 29 2010
From: Missoula, MT

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

Nice work, Stoney.

Whenever I'm out of sync--no matter the instrument--I slow it down to the point that everything is perfect, then gradually speed it back up.

I miss the high desert of N.M.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/birdtranescoenow

Why bother? -John Cage

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2010 8:32:54

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Randal)

Gerardo doesn't use his pinky for anything

There are so many ways to rasgear, how could they even all be listed? The old school players had a crazy strong rasgeo that was sort of "free stroke", nowaways most people launch their fingers off the thumb cause it uses less muscular force, especially the gitano players (and you can learn that way faster)

Entri has a CRAZY strong free stroke rasgeo, he was very influenced by playing with Sabicas and guys like that. When he plays finger rasgeos in the class, he is louder than everyone

Tomatito is a good example of somebody who uses, as far as I can tell, almost total "rest stroke" rasgeos launched off the thumb

A lot of the canorroto guys like Jeronimo, Jesus, etc love to do rasgeos just with I and M

Personally I use all five fingers but I can do it with smaller combinations too

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2010 12:16:35

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

quote:

However, when the 4 or 5 strokes need to be internal to the compas, for example in Juan Martin's method for Bulerias you play a 5 stroke starting on the 9 with the final up-stroke on the 10, golpe on 11 and back to A on the 12.

Hey Stoney,

That's interesting as I'm just starting with this stuff.

I'd stick with a 3 finger/4 stroke that sounds nice and tight rather than going for 4 finger/5 stroke and later on if you develop the 4/5 stroke then use that as well.

The way I'm being taught is that when using 3 fingers they flick off the thumb where as 4 fingers just flick from tension in the hand. And for that reason the 3 finger approach seems to give a more powerful and percussive tone.

Hey Ron M,

How about a beginner section. Then you could assign one of your senior members to moderate it on a monthly/weekly rota. I'm sure some of you old timer Foro members must get fed up with the same old beginner type of questions over and over.

On second thoughts, a weekly rota would be great. We could have a new teacher each week. Technique stickies, budget guitar stickies etc to save going over the same ol' question. Come on Ron, you strike me as the kinda guy with plenty of time on your hands.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2010 23:02:59

marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to sean65)

i would definately make good use of a beginner section, and would also feel very priveledged to be able to learn bits and pieces from the players here

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2010 6:02:17

Stoney

Posts: 132
Joined: Nov. 6 2009

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

quote:

Gerardo doesn't use his pinky for anything

I don't know if he actually uses the pinky in his regular playing but he does show a section on Picado in his instructional vid where he instructs to play the picado with the index and middle, then the middle and ring and then the ring and pinky, then the index and ring, then the middle and pinky etc. etc. all possible combinations. Then he goes into 3 finger picado in all combinations.

I was only interested in the pinky for picado in order to strengthen it.

I also vote for a beginner's section with some of the advanced players moderating and discussing technique.

Stoney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2010 8:14:50

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

Hey Stoney,

Help is at hand. This girls got it all going on. One stop shop on how to get that great flamenco sound.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2010 10:18:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stoney

quote:

Gerardo doesn't use his pinky for anything

I don't know if he actually uses the pinky in his regular playing but he does show a section on Picado in his instructional vid where he instructs to play the picado with the index and middle, then the middle and ring and then the ring and pinky, then the index and ring, then the middle and pinky etc. etc. all possible combinations. Then he goes into 3 finger picado in all combinations.

I was only interested in the pinky for picado in order to strengthen it.

I also vote for a beginner's section with some of the advanced players moderating and discussing technique.

Stoney

About Gerardo and pinky picado....sorry but you should review that section again. He does no such thing. He does im, ia, ma, and then the 3 finger ami as you said, but never pinky.

ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2010 13:37:55

Stoney

Posts: 132
Joined: Nov. 6 2009

RE: Playing question - rasgueados (in reply to Stoney)

I'll have to check that out again, something may have got lost in translation there.

So this is all becoming very daunting. I worked out like a dog all weekend trying to improve all elements of the right hand, rasgueados, arpeggios and picado with very little sucess.

It seems this thread and the curved finger vs. straight finger thread are really about the same thing as you can hardly separate these three essential techniques. I have no problems with picado but use the straight finger approach. The arpegios are ok but the rasgueados are still giving me a problem.

ANd the switch between arpegio to picado and picado to arpegio is also a problem.

I'd like to get the fingers a bit more curled and looking like this (without the red nail polish)

But I end up more like this -

The first, with the fingers completely perpendicular to the strings and with the tips of the fingers going straight in between the strings as opposed to going in on an angle seems to give a brighter and more even sound.

So then comes a couple off problems, particularly with Solea and Alegrias.

Here's the tag for Solea

---------0-------------0-----|
------0-------------0--------|
----1------------1-----------|
-------------2----------------|
------------------------------|
--0--------------------------|

I'm used to playing it with the thumb, a quick triplet in arpegio position and then dragging the thumb across the strings, and with a golpe on the second last note. It's just not working in the first position. Maybe my thumb is too short.

The same is true for the similar tag at the end of Alegrias.

Any ideas? Suggestions?

Stoney

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2010 8:17:22