Flamenco Guitar - The Classical Approach vs. The Blues Approach

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Stoney

Posts: 132
Joined: Nov. 6 2009

Flamenco Guitar - The Classical Appr...

Here are a few thoughts I've had about the process of learning Flamenco guitar. Although this is mostly geared towards beginner and mid level players who still have their noses glued to those instruction books and DVDs, it would be nice to get an opinion or two from some of the upper level players.

Just to clarify, my playing has a stench that I can hardly stand, but I truly believe that after having made EVERY possible mistake that can be made along the way, I am slowly getting better and learning from those mistakes. Hopefully, somebody won't go through the same thing due to this post. (of course I can just rant on for hours so ignore me if this isn't to your taste)

My impressions -

The Classical Approach

Youtube is full of guys playing pieces from the JM books and VHS tapes, Toques Flamencos by Paco Pena, the Juan Serrano books plus a pile of guys doing horrific note for note renditions of Paco de Lucia pieces. (just search for Herencia Latina to see what I mean)

There is some merit, particularly in the beginning in being able to "cover" a piece but NEVER forget that this is Flamenco, it's not classical music and therefore the objective is to improvise.

The Blues Approach

OK, so it's not like the Blues where you create a solo out of thin air just because you have the Minor Pentatonic scale nailed. You need a repetoire of Falsetas to disect, adapt, mess with, mix and match, take apart and put back together. You aren't going to get there by copying and repeating the same 6 falsetas in the same order with the same chunks of compas stuck in between.

Hopefully you will then get so adept at mixing and matching that some real golden moments will just happen by accident. Practicing scales, modes and arpegios along the way can't hurt at all. Technical warm up exercises aren't bad either.

Finally and metiphorically, would you go to art school for 10 years just so you could do perfect oil painting copies of the masters? So why put in the time just so you can play like your guitar heroe? Play your own stuff whenever possible.

End of RANT

Stoney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 8:03:16

marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

the approach i am taking touches on both categories. I am an extreme beginner to flamenco guitar, but i have some experience as a guitar player

i am learning a lot of falsetta's from books and dvd's note for note, and i am also learning from teachers, but i am also trying to play around with the falsetta's and do many variations of the compas

i try to do every single excersice i can think of every day, the best advice i can give as a fellow beginner, is just be obsessed and listen to a lot of flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 8:17:58

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

Mix it up. Find out what works for you.

I've got 25 years of playing experience and I was embarrassed as f*** when I tried out a nylon string guitar in the shop. Pretty much nothing I knew translated to a nylon strung guitar except a few fingerpicked blues rhythms.

A month later I'm feeling more comfortable. My Flamenco musical vocabulary is starting to develop (playing not speaking). In fact, I felt pure child-like joy when I hit my first proper 3 finger Rasgao last week. I felt it. Gave me a right buzz.

There's no right or wrong direction to come from either. A classically trained guitarist studying flamenco will have the discipline to get the techniques down but may end up sounding too stiff. Whereas someone coming from a blues background may have a better understanding and appreciation of the naunces created by non perfection.

quote:

You need a repetoire of Falsetas to disect, adapt, mess with, mix and match, take apart and put back together. You aren't going to get there by copying and repeating the same 6 falsetas in the same order with the same chunks of compas stuck in between

Absolutely, as with any music, improvisation is just the artistic reassembling of various licks (rock&blues) / runs (jazz) / flasetas (flamenco) you have within your repertoire. Obviously the greater your repertoire the more artistic freedom you'll have.

I must add though that I'm really enjoying the organic nature of purely acoustic music played only with the fingers. There's something quite earthy and grounding in the process. No electricity, no delay pedal, no cables, no searching for the plectrum.

The simple life eh?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 8:41:38

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

You are right on, I agree your "blues" approach is the correct way. Keep in mind, MANY people cant learn that way and need things mapped out for em, which is too bad.

Also keep in mind, a GOOD student can easily extract what he needs from "classical methods", so long as he is smart enough or has proper guidence to not fall into the classical "trap" along the way. I encourage students to use whatever method, so long as they understand they can extract and cut and paste falsetas and technques and rhythm patterns in an improvisitory way. Not all students "get it" at first though.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 9:00:04

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

I heard about this revolutionary way of learning flamenco. You learn to play in compas and do killer rasgueados, then you listen to tons and tons of cante.

But I could have misheard it. :)

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 9:02:30

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

I have to agree with banana. Best method is to practice, be aware of your mistakes, and practice. Also its important to practice. Don't learn things halfway, that was my biggest mistake in past

. Stick to one thing until you nail it. With nailing it i mean: like in the original recording (be it Paco or a tuition book).
If you want to accomp one day then knowing cante will make it easier, but if you just want to play falsetas, you don't have to know cante at all (waiting to get stoned ^^).

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 9:12:03

Stoney

Posts: 132
Joined: Nov. 6 2009

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

I admit, my post and my personal philosophy is SOLO guitar oriented since that is my main focus. But it would still apply for both cante and baile.

As for nailing compas and listening to tons of cante - I don't think you have compas nailed if you are always playing things the same way, in the same order and always going from falseta A to falseta B to LLamada to Falseta C etc. etc.

Playing loose is the only way to ever really play tight.

Stoney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 9:42:02

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: Flamenco Guitar - The Classical ... (in reply to Stoney)

My personal opinion is that you are COMPLETELY right.

Think about this fact:

Every single great flamenco player who has ever lived, has learned from what you call the "blues approach".

Nobody learned this stuff through tabs. They got it from being surrounded by the culture and spending many hours with the guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2010 13:20:43