Gerardo's nails and nails in general

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xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

Gerardo's nails and nails in general

this is mainly a question to Ricardo and Pimientito as i know they play Gerardo Núnez's pieces, but also a question in general about nail length...

i've been trying to play Yerma and Siempre es Tarde with ok-ish results, but i found that the only way i can play them quick and smooth enough is if i file my nails way down, so that they barely touch the strings...this results in me being quicker and more precise in all techniques, but the lack of nail also means that i lose some of the tone that's bright and sharp...

now the real question to you guys is: does Gerardo use extremely short nails? because i found his pieces only work for me that way...
and the second question in general: should i just get used to shorter nails? they weren't too long before either, but anything non-Gerardo i play sounds different and while i'm happy with efficiency and speed, i miss the tone that i liked a lot...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 4:44:50

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Gerardo's right hand :)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 14:59:01

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

hard to tell from that picture.

You can tell his thumbnail is pretty short, but i cant tell how far past
the tip his fingernails are.

Thanks for the pic!!

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 15:16:24

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to ToddK)

thanks for the pic!!!
yeah thumb is short, the rest look longer than mine right now...he has no nail on his pinky, i guess he doesn't use it much...
i'm still confused and have no idea what to do...nail crisis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 16:29:58

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

I'm thinking about chopping off the old pinky nail myself. I literally never use it anymore

and I stopped putting glue on it a long time ago

Except for that Gerardo's RH looks a LOT like mine. He has a short p and longish a like me.
It's taken me 3 1/2 years but I finally know exactly what I'm doing with my nails for the first time. I have a tried and true shape that works for everything...no more bad nail days where I just can't get it right... woo-hoo!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 17:25:15

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Interesting, i prefer a longer thumbnail and a shorter A nail.

Im still trying to figure out my index and thumbnail ideal shapes and lengths.

I expect it'll be another year or so before i get them absolutely perfect.

I keep my pinky pretty long, i dont intend to cut it off anytime soon. I still like to use the old school rasgueados. :)

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 18:46:48

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

It looks like he has a broken pinky nail...so sad

keeps a nail a little longer for ups

i and m are short for picado

thumb is hard to tell....doesent really matter

longer pinky is important for 4 finger rasq.

c

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2009 19:35:04

Stu

Posts: 2528
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to c)

I'm still looking for my perfect nail shape/length..

all my nails seem to be slowly getting shorter.

I and M are shortest, then A is always longer for golpe but also cos my A finger is a bit fleshier than the others and the nail seems to join the finger a little deeper down the nail than the other fingers.

I see some thumbs that are really short then some that look like they belong to an evil sorcerer (Moraito springs to mind!)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2009 3:01:49

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

I dont file my thumb until i realise that it really gets in the way with pulgar and rasgeardos. I file it maybe every two weeks or so. The other fingers i have to file almost everyday. Gerardos A nail is really long i couldnt do it with such a nail. And his nails have strong "edges". I like to file mine perfect round. Each his own.

Somewhere on the foro there is also a close up of Paco's hands...

aahh... a guitarrist's topic

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2009 3:20:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

I have seen gerardo with shorter and longer nails than that pic, with a fake nail, with heavy arcrylic powder mess, etc. It doesn't matter so long as you have some sort of good way to file to get tone. Glad someone took note of the edges of his nail, that they are not round and contoured. I have been talking about that forever. You need those edges to file a flat angle for the string to have a good tone. The specific length or protective material on top (ie thickness) becomes not such a big issue once you have the shape right. Gerardo is not the only flamenco player that keeps those edges. Check pics of Tomatito, chicuelo, Paco, manolo sanlucar etc etc etc...

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2009 7:49:28

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to Ricardo)

hm Ricardo im sure you know Pumping Nylon. There the guy says (i think) that the string starts on the edge of the nail (where flesh and nail meet) and goes through a big part of the nail until its released in the middle of the nail. That works for me. I have tried to file the nail "flat" at the "top", leaving edges, but that only caused my nail to "catch" the string, ie plucking it instead of stroking it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2009 8:42:02

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Im in malaga right now but I'll post some photos tomorrow. I have a nerdy collection of guitarist right hands and some good photos of gerardos right hand playing different techniques.

Firstly Gerardo never uses his pinky. He thinks that 3 good fingers are enough and I tend to agree with him as i cant grow a good nail on my pinky anyway.
Someone pointed out the "a" finger is longer. I have been fiddling around with that 3 finger picado (arpeggio) technique for a while now and its easier with a good "a" finger nail.
Other than that i would point out the difference in finger shapes of different guitarists. Gerardo has hands with fingers that taper from being quite fat to being qiute thin at the tips. Segovia had the same, as does manolo sanlucar. I could help but notice Ricardo has the same type of hand.

My hands do the opposite. They are more like vicentes fingers that are long and if anything flare out at the tip. I find it easier to have longer nails for some reason. I think its because they reach over the "flare" of the finger tip better. I have tried keeping them as short as Ricardos but I personally find it more comfortable to have them slightly longer...however we are only talking a few milimeters. Once the nail is more than about a quarter of the nail-bed length beyond the nail bed, it is too long.

Secondly is the issue of natural nail strength. Some guys have nail like horn. I have pretty weak nails and I have to have more rounded edges or I tear the nail off. I came to agree with Rons comment that is better to learn to play with what you have naturally and develop your own style than try to fight against that and copy a technique that doenst suit your hand / nail type.

I remember someone commentaing ealier this year that vicentes sound /style was probably partly due to overcoming the technical problems due to his strange double jointed large hands

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2009 11:20:49

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

while i'm happy with efficiency and speed, i miss the tone that i liked a lot...

isn't there a quote from Paco in one of the documentaries where he says something like (this is not word for word by a long way) classical players sacrifice rhythm for tone, flamenco players sacrifice tone for rhythm...

also, a friend of mine asked Gerardo in Sanlucar once (this is about 10 years ago now) how he got his picado sound, and he said something like "use a PA"

- the point is, you almost never hear the tone that a flamenco player creates just from the guitar, it's nearly always mic-ed up or amplified somehow, so tone is less of an issue from that point of view....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2009 11:35:52

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to mark indigo)

great responses, thanks guys!
i'm beginning to get used to the shorter nails and i think i like them better, i miss something in the tone (i'll surely get used to it), but the increased efficiency it much more of a reward...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2009 12:13:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

while i'm happy with efficiency and speed, i miss the tone that i liked a lot...

isn't there a quote from Paco in one of the documentaries where he says something like (this is not word for word by a long way) classical players sacrifice rhythm for tone, flamenco players sacrifice tone for rhythm...

also, a friend of mine asked Gerardo in Sanlucar once (this is about 10 years ago now) how he got his picado sound, and he said something like "use a PA"

- the point is, you almost never hear the tone that a flamenco player creates just from the guitar, it's nearly always mic-ed up or amplified somehow, so tone is less of an issue from that point of view....

Regarding Paco's quote he meant flamenco players are ok with MISSING notes, not hitting them good, in order to keep the tempo solid, rather than TONE like the sound of a note. Classical players might litterally adjust the tempo in order to hit the notes clean. Even John Williams does that. Flamenco's very rarely.

Anyway Flamenco TONE is just as important or MORE important IMO than a "classical" tone. One is not more or less or better than an other. The issue about volume is also not so cut and dry. Some players play louder than others and more clear, regardless of playing style. Also some guitars are louder than others. Volume levels are relative to the audience and venue. Even the quietest player might be too loud for a certain intimate setting. Vice versa, the loudest player with the loudest guitar wont' be heard over a noisy troupe of dancers palmeros and singers in a big OUT DOOR venue.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2009 12:38:20

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

i don't get how you can have anything but a very short a-nail without getting too much nail in golpes. for me to get a good flesh+nail golpe everything has to be very precise.. is there some kind of trick I'm missing?

i prefer a longer a-nail for plucking, but a very short one for golpe. usually I compromise between the two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2009 12:43:04

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Gerardo's nails and nails in general (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

I agree that flamenco tone isnt just about volume. Some players play TOO hard in my opinion and you can end up with a very loud sound but a "plunkiness" of the strings. Somenoe like Emilio Maya plays relatively softly for a flamenco player but its clean and dynamic and when you have it amplified that kind of playing sounds great.

Anyway...Here is Gerardos right hand in Alzapua

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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
CDbaby. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/markshurey

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2009 5:37:13