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Advice for a complete Noob!
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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 RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to MDK)
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My experience with guitars took me from country music, to classical and finally to something that hinges on Flamenco, but truly is possibly a more generalized version of Spanish guitar. A couple of years ago I fell in love with the sound and technique used in the guitar solos of flamencos such as Amigo, Tomatito and DeLucia. However, I am often isolated as an infidel of some sort, because I only enjoy solo guitar –and truly cannot listen to anything else such as singing or percussions, second guitars or flute, all detracting from the beauty of a One guitar singing its song-.
In due course I sold my Martin EC (steel strings) and my Ramirez 1a (classical). Even my Conde negra flamenco guitar did not supply the tone I searched for, which I found in a German Vazquez Rubio Blanca. My pauper classical repertory sounds great on that guitar, and I occasionally revert to country western finger picking and sing a song with it. I find that a “good” blanca can be really addictive and for me it is now the ‘one and only”.
However, I recommend you search carefully, and perhaps beyond what you have found. A German Vazquez Rubio sells new for $5,000 with a wait list, in addition to the time of construction. But Navarro and Castillo (discussed today on the Forum) are fine instruments at about 2 to 2,500 (for the top of their lines), or about $1,000 for a student model (also with about 3 months wait).
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gj Michelob
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Date Oct. 1 2009 12:50:44
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polishcomedy
Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando
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RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to MDK)
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gj, I'm a big country fan, too. I'm into Brent Mason, Johnny Hiland, Danny Gatton, Merle Travis, Joe Maphis, Buddy Merrill, Doug Seven, Scotty Anderson, Brad Paisley, The Hellecasters, Albert Lee, Jimmy Bryant, Chet Atkins, etc.
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~Patrick
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Date Oct. 1 2009 14:34:00
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to polishcomedy)
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quote:
gj, I'm a big country fan, too. I'm into Brent Mason, Johnny Hiland, Danny Gatton, Merle Travis, Joe Maphis, Buddy Merrill, Doug Seven, Scotty Anderson, Brad Paisley, The Hellecasters, Albert Lee, Jimmy Bryant, Chet Atkins, etc.
Wonderful... I hope not to irritate you with this, as you seem more of purist, but I -also- love the Dixie Chicks. And, last year, I met -and keep in touch- with Lyle Lovett. Since he left me a copy of his last CD with the Concierge, I inevitably became a fan. Lovely gentleman. His Wife and producer, April, has been the sweetest and left me an open invitation to any concert... wish I could see him in his home country, Texas... in due course.
I think there is a bit of "tex-mex" sound, in our mutual passion for Country and Flamenco, wouldn't you say?
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gj Michelob
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Date Oct. 1 2009 15:18:16
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joseglez
Posts: 26
Joined: Sep. 1 2008
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico
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RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to MDK)
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If I could only get one guitar I would settle for the flamenco, but your circumstances may be different than mine. I have tried some classical guitars that are somehow aflamencadas but a factory representative from Prudencio Sáez in Valencia warned me that the construction of the classical guitar is different and should not be used for flamenco. Somebody with more knowledge about guitar construction can chime in about this. Having said that, a friend of mine has a couple of Takamine classicals that have really taken a beating and they keep going.
I have to agree with Estevan that you need to decide what you want to play because the playing technique and the aims are somehow different between classical and flamenco. The classical guitarist is focused on having a clean sound even at the expense of playing a little "rubato", while in flamenco keeping the tempo is more important than playing clean. This unforgiveness in the tempo is what makes flamenco so difficult.
One thing you have to take into account if you decide to go the way of flamenco is that it is not just Paco de Lucía, Sabicas or Tomatito, it is a complete cultural expression and you WILL get dissed by the Andalusians. Sometimes that can be very frustrating. A flamenco cantaor said to me once, if you are not from Córdoba, Sevilla or Graná, tú no sirves. The other thing is, depending where you live it can be nearly impossible to find anybody that can teach you flamenco. Classical guitarists can be found in almost any part of the world. I don't say you should not try flamenco, but I just want to warn you about what you are getting into before you dive in.
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Date Oct. 1 2009 19:58:09
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polishcomedy
Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando
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RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to MDK)
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jose, who cares what people in Andalucia think? People should pick up an instrument and/or style for themselves, not to impress people in a country thousands of miles away. I don't expect to be a flamenco master, but I enjoy learning it, and I can incorporate it into my songwriting in any way I deem fit. I play all sorts of styles, so infusing it will only make my final product that much more different than the musician who only draws from one source of inspiration.
Besides, the average person has no idea what flamenco is. Today someone posted a link on craigslist claiming they were a great flamenco guitarist. I checked out their clips and it was a sort of watered down latin elevator music with cheezy flutes and programmed drums. Not flamenco by any stretch of the words, but joe sixpack probably thinks it is, so if you don't live in Andalucia you'll probably still impress the people outside of there.
I leave you with this...should a white person not play the blues? Should a Latin person not play German polka? Should a black person not play heavy metal?
Anyways, back to the subject at hand...get a flamenco guitar. You can play classical on it, but if you try to play flamenco on a classical you'll turn that thing into kindling if you don't at least slap a golpeador on it.
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~Patrick
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Date Oct. 1 2009 23:49:38
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villain
Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado
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RE: Advice for a complete Noob! (in reply to MDK)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MDK
Personally I just want buy a flamenco guitar because I think it sounds better, I had no idea that it was such a stereotypical style of playing to a certain group of people in the andalucia, after reading what you said it discourages me to want to learn. It feels like I have to be a gypsy to learn can't anyone just learn to play.
I don't want to learn traditional music but more modern flamencco but will start off with classical techniques first before I move onto flamenco or will gradually try to learn both.
1. 'Sounds better' is personal preference. A nice Negra will sound similar to a nice classical, a nice Blanca likely will/should be much brighter. But the sound also sorta comes from you dude. Like others have stated and like I think we told you on Ramin's site - Get a Flamenco, it will play much better (the action and playability have been way better on every single Flamenco I have ever played - student to pro models - than on any classical I have ever played - student to pro models). There is nothing that you need to do to play a classical piece on a flamenco guitar, this is not universally true the other way around...although good skill and technique can compensate.
2. the advantage to being a gypsy is that those rhythms, dances and forms have been drilled into your head since you were a small baby...other than that, yes anyone can learn to play...it will just be harder for us gringo's as at least for me personally, i dont have the lifetime of exposure to the culture and rhythms. As for the prejudice, its just like anything else and some people will always hold something as cultural as their folk music or unique arts as something that should be kept within a smaller community - The Chinese are like that with Kung Fu, black dudes are like that about white rappers, everyone is like that about white dudes playing blues, the spanish can be like that about gringos playing flamenco...
But its not universal dude, like I study Kung Fu with a very traditional Asian guy and learn flamenco from a very traditional gypsy. If you respect the art and are dedicated to it, then most will respect you in return....there will always be haters though.
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Date Oct. 3 2009 6:04:15
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