RE: **Tangos Beginners'Challenge here!!**

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RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge here!!**

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kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

Hello,
just came back this weekend from vacation, 2 weeks earlier as planned because of severe back problems again.
Last year I suffered from a double hernia, and since then I have to be very carefull of my posture, but which is very hard.

I went to Marocco with a collegue of mine, who is from Marocco, and we went into the mountains with family and friends of him to make music. The enviroment was great, the musicians even better. I've never had such an intamate gathering, and it reminds me of the early cante-days.
There was this young guy who had made his own guitar from a can, a wooden stick and a break-cable from a bike....damn he plays as the best.
This all was an amazing experience and felt sad I had to leave.

What it'll means, I am not gonna participate in the challenge, and personally even worse, I am gonna stop playing now untill my backbone is ok again.

Goodluck, and every now and then I'll have a look at the forum, but can't read that much because sitting is one of the worst things I can do.
Gladfully I have another 16 cante DVD's which I can put on and enjoy....

This is not the thread, but I don't have the energy to look for the right thread, but these Rito Geografia del Cante DVD's are just fenomonal....for the history offcourse, but also for your compas....
I noticed that, besides the strict compas ofcourse, also the joy and the jaleo's really help in understanding compas....

greetz
Remco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2009 23:24:40

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to kozz)

welcome back kozz!

i'm sorry about your back. i hope it'll heal soon enough. take it easy and be careful.

Morocco, eh? that sounds very cool! i might be going to Morocco too. but only for a day.

take care!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2009 7:08:38

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to kozz)

Hey, I just might win this by attrition!

Seriously, back injuries totally suck, I have had sciatica when cycling and it was painful and went on for months, and then totally cleared up one day, I could feel something shift or release in my back and then it was gone!. Not sure how a double hernia would impact your backbone, but you might want to get a guitar strap and practice ala Rombsix. Backs and guitars can be a problem. There are solutions and workarounds.

There is a guy at work with his computer set-up so he can work standing up because his back is bad and can't sit down for very long. You might want to set something up like that so you still can internet surf. Or maybe now is the time to find out if you can live without it... go back to Playboy as Flo would say!

Good luck and get well. Life is full of curve balls and unfullfilled aspirations due to circumstances beyond our control, you just need to dust off and start planning for your next challenge!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2009 19:58:05

davidido

Posts: 8
Joined: Jul. 13 2009
From: The Netherlands

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

Hi,

I'd like to join the beginner's challenge too.

Great initiative to organize challenges like this! It's a great way to push your limits when there's nobody around to do that for you.

So here it goes; started practicing yesterday, got the notes down, next up is my muscle memory and last but not least the FEEL. Quite a challenge here!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 2:56:11

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to davidido)

Welcome davidido. You can take kozz's place as Netherlands representative!

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidido
Great initiative to organize challenges like this! ............... Quite a challenge here!

All Florian's idea - we've just picked it up and carried on. Um yes it is quite a challenge. I only have the first falseta down and it's not sounding too great so far.......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 4:20:45

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

Yes I've learnt it! I've learnt the notes!! Um..... can't play it tho.

I think that Ramzi's deceptively relaxed playing made me think this would be possible, but I'm not sure I'm going to get this up to speed by the deadline, which is:

six weeks and 5 days!!

or

47 days

whichever way you prefer to measure it

Keep practising everyone!

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 9:47:20

davidido

Posts: 8
Joined: Jul. 13 2009
From: The Netherlands

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

I've got most of the piece down now. However, I have a few questions.
I noticed the video at normal speed and the instructional video at low speed are performed in a slightly different way. I saw different right hand techniques and different notes are being used... Also the tab differs from teh versions performed in the videos. My question is: to what degree are we permitted to use different right, left hand techniques/variations?

As for me, I'm most comfortable using iai rasgueo in the tango 'theme'. Also I like ami more then pia. In a nutshell: I play the piece the way that feels most comfortable to me. But then again, using techniques you're not yet comfortable with is the best way to progress. And progression is the main goal of the challenge IMO.

I know this topic has been adressed a million times before, but what do you guys think?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 1:37:04

Jenny

Posts: 97
Joined: Mar. 13 2007
From: Oxford, UK

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to davidido)

Hi,

I noticed this too and was kind of hoping we could pick and choose the way to play it from the vid and tab versions that we find most comfortable... but then, like you say, it would be more of a challenge to play in new ways.

So I dunno - looks like I'm just asking the same question as you...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 2:06:23

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to davidido)

quote:

I noticed the video at normal speed and the instructional video at low speed are performed in a slightly different way. I saw different right hand techniques and different notes are being used... Also the tab differs from teh versions performed in the videos. My question is: to what degree are we permitted to use different right, left hand techniques/variations?

Ah that´s flamenco for you - never the same twice!

The piece should be an accurate reflection of either the tab or video - no improvising or composing your own! It should be close to one of the sources provided. But within that you have freedom to choose - no two people will play exactly the same, but like I said, that´s flamenco.

Oh just remembered another rule:

Capo 2 just like on the video

Glad you guys are all practising! I can play the compas between the two falsetas but the two falsetas themselves are sound pretty rough

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 2:18:31

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to kozz)

quote:

I noticed the video at normal speed and the instructional video at low speed are performed in a slightly different way.

We all noticed this but the first rule of beginner's challenge is not to say anything

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 2:51:30

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to domzo)

Hola muchachos! I'm so sorry my slowed-down video is not 100% identical to the original one. I realized that the second I recorded it, but I assumed you would notice the differences and would be able to patch them up using the original, up-to-speed video.

Just let me know if you would like me to re-record a slowed-down, "100% same notes / techniques" as the original video, and I'll be glad to.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 13:46:20

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to rombsix)

i think it doesn't matter as long as the piece is recognizable, whatever technique is used, the goal is to sound like good flamenco...we'll be judging compás, aire and the execution of a technique, if you choose something else that doesn't sound out of place i don't see why it'd be a problem...

if you have a look at previous challenges (especially the advanced one) there were many variations on the same thing and i think they were well recieved by the judges (well with one exception but that was hardly unexpected :))

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 16:27:50

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to domzo)

Well now were saying something, one thing is that when the Alzapua / thumb section that starts on C near the end - I believe the flamenco way is as tabbed by Stu. Ramzi fingers a normal C chord and not the "flamenco" C chord. At least that is the way I was taught for that descending chord sequence. Cheers!

PS Is there anything that Ramzi is doing (since there was a bit of controversy with his preceptor) that is not typically flamenco and is working the wrong way in terms of soniquete? And I say this with deep respect to Ramzi, for all of the effort he has put into it, I thank him very much and I respect his artistic integrity immensely. But, perhaps there is some things we may learn from this piece that we will have to unlearn later? The flamenco C is one that I picked-up (perhaps I am wrong there and if I am please let me know!). We are all on a journey, some of us are just further up the path. Respect to everyone.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 16:58:53

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

it doesn't matter as long as the piece is recognizable, whatever technique is used, the goal is to sound like good flamenco

Yes I think that sums it up nicely.

@Ramzi - I don't think you need to re-record. We have all the material we need to learn the piece. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy.

@cathulu - do you mean C9 chord? I've been taught both ways of making C (and a few other variants too!). As imiJ says above, if it sounds like good flamenco it's fine. If it sounds a bit off the wall you might lose marks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 23:50:33

edgar884

Posts: 1975
Joined: Nov. 16 2005

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to kozz)

I AM SO LATE. sorry I will be judging on who makes me feel the passion.

Hi Ailsa I am around just lazy about computers cause I can't type so fast.

But I will be judging so let me know in case I vanish, lol just kidding.

I'm around and just shared some new vids.

_____________________________

May we find God through Flamenco instead of Angels and Demons

www.gabrieledgar.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2009 11:20:25

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to edgar884)

You're not late, it's fine! You are on the list of judges, and don't worry I'll be sending everyone a reminder nearer the time!

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2009 11:48:35

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

Yes, the C9 chord. That was the way I was taught, and it is easier to play the sequence also.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2009 17:21:04

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to cathulu)

Cathulu,

quote:

Hey, I just might win this by attrition!

Not so fast buddy. You got me interested. It isn't too late to join?

How are the submissions done? is it video or only sound recording?

Those are sweet falsetas. Well done for the initiative and the effort everyone involved is putting into it.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 4:58:43

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

It isn't too late to join?

How are the submissions done? is it video or only sound recording?

No it's not too late. The submissions are mp3 only and are anonymised by our lovely admin assistant at_leo_87

. Go to the top of the thread and you'll find all the learning material. You still have until August 31st.

My only thought is - do you think this is a bit basic for you? There is a fantastic prize of 2 free skype lessons from ToddK, and that prize really should go to a beginner. But even if you don't really fit into that level, you can still learn the piece and upload it afterwards for comments.

Ailsa

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 6:07:55

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

There is a fantastic prize of 2 free skype lessons from ToddK

Hey Ailsa,

I just found out that this was the prize being offered this time, and I have a comment about that. I have some doubts as to whether this prize is actually going to be a prize to all the winners, because for a Skype lesson to work, both ends have to have pretty decent internet connections.

However, we cannot guarantee that all the participants have such good connections. For example, the connection I have is so sluggish as compared to most other people's connections that Skype lessons might turn out very choppy and unusable. I am not the expert, and probably ToddK would have a better say in this, but I just wanted to point your attention toward this issue because unfortunately, there still are places in this world where there are daily 6-hour power outages, and a 512-kbps internet connection (which allows for a maximum of 55 kilobytes per second of download speed) costs too much for one to afford easily (for example, Beirut.

)

Vale? Gracias!

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 6:25:52

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to rombsix)

Hi Ramzi,

Yes you are right. And that's not the only problem - you need a webcam. I don't have one of those either!

However it was very generous of ToddK to offer and I wasn't about to turn it away. If it turns out thet winner cannot use the prize we'll sort out something else and ask ToddK whether his prize could be held over to the next challenge.

Sound OK muchacho?

_____________________________

http://www.flamencojourney.com
http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 6:45:08

rombsix

Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

Sounds great! Gracias senorita!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 7:14:11

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

My only thought is - do you think this is a bit basic for you? There is a fantastic prize of 2 free skype lessons from ToddK, and that prize really should go to a beginner. But even if you don't really fit into that level, you can still learn the piece and upload it afterwards for comments.

You are probably right. It did take me a few hours in the weekend to learn the falsetas to be able to play along Ramzi's recording, so I guess it is a bit basic. My issue though is getting from the knowing-it stage to the always-and-every-single-time-play-it-perfect stage. Is there an Intermediate challenge? The advanced challenge I saw and is a bit too big for me... Oh never mind, I'll do a search in the foro and find. I don't want to rob someone from the prize, though I would love some face time with ToddK.

Up until Cathulu pointed it out, I didn't pay much attention to the challenges. But now that I did, I find it's a great initiative and it's great of the foro to be a stage for it. Also now with summer, I have more time to practice...

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 8:46:03

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

Is there an Intermediate challenge?

we have several going that could be open to intermediates.
Theres the cante accomp. challenge, a composition challenge and I believe a Solea por Bulerias challenge.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 8:50:29

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

Is there an Intermediate challenge?

i'm trying to get this challenge off the ground.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=110388&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1

it has to wait until at least august to give enough space for the other challenges.

all these challenges are making me antsy for a challenge i can participate in.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 9:06:57

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

we have several going that could be open to intermediates.
Theres the cante accomp. challenge, a composition challenge and I believe a Solea por Bulerias challenge.

Yeah, I saw the cante one which is a bit over my head. Haven't accompanied cante ever and it's hard to start with the challenge...

Far as I could determine, the intermediate challenge hasn't started yet?

We really need to make the challenge threads sticky so they appear at the top, either that or have a special section/forum in the foro for the challenges.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 9:16:03

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to Ailsa)

I agree with you Ailsa, but the definition of beginner seems to be very stretched. The beginner that won the last beginner challenge played the falseta much better than that German Guy what's his name that was the example of how to do it right (I can never remember his name haha hope no-one is offended. I am half German so pffttt). That beginner was I would hazard is an intermediate, probably at gshaviv level or indeed higher. So was he sandbagging???

I expect the winner of this beginner challenge will bring a similar skill set to the table.

To me a true beginner could barely carry a compas of solea and fumble chords especially the F chord. All of those people, and there are probably a lot of them on this foro, are shut out of these challenges by the challenging falsetas. But I guess I am thinking beginner to guitar. I digress...

Anyways gshaviv it sounds like we will have to go head to head on another challenge another day! Cheers!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 11:32:45

r0bbie

Posts: 160
Joined: Feb. 11 2007
From: Holland

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to kozz)

Pfff....

This is beginner stuff? What have I been doing all those years? I cant even play the first bar because finger two refuses to go to the high E on the 6th fret and later on the stretching....
I read that you should stop when it hurts but then I can only practice for 5 minutes and that wont get me anywhere I gues.

I know, I should practice more but it looks so easy in the video, respect to all of you who get this done in 2 months. I know I need much more time but maybe If I get it done I will join, otherwise ill wait for the next competition.

Rob.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 13:57:00

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: **Tangos Beginners' Challenge he... (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

It did take me a few hours in the weekend to learn the falsetas to be able to play along Ramzi's recording,

yes gshaviv this is supposed to be a challenge - if you can get is to playalong speed in a few hours, then it's def too easy for you!

@ cathulu, yes it's very subjective what counts as a beginner. Same with dance classes. I've seen people who feel they should be in an advanced class because they have been learning for years but actually it would do them the world of good to just get something simple completely right

My hope for the challenge is that by learning this we will all be a bit better than we were before. So robbie don't give up - it's supposed to be hard! We have over a month to go.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2009 14:22:08