Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons)

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RTC

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: DFW Area, Texas

Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons)

Can you please let me know the Pros and Cons of Peg guitars.
I was speaking to a guitar maker and he said few people order them any more.
I personally think they look very traditional, but I want to find out why people do not chose them anymore.

Regards,

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 9:38:31

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

I won't use machines. I'm building, and only use pegs. Done right, they're sweet. It's just.....'flamenco'...

Only just finished #2, but someone saw me tuning my wood pegs and asked if they were the "those 'machine' pegs", so easy were they to use.

And it blows my mind that there's hundreds of incredible guitars to choose from out there, and someone chooses THE peghead - and promptly cuts it into a machine head.

Sad....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 9:48:51

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

A lot of people are scared by pegheads. They're afraid they wouldn't be able to tune them.
Actually it's quite easy once you have a bit of practice (look at all those violin players, they're constantly using pegs).
Pegs are a bit less precise.
Changing strings is much faster.
In other words:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 10:11:51

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to RTC)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 10:48:13

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

quote:

they slipped (despite peg dope and pencil lead)

too much "gunk"

Sustain will be longer on an instrument with machine-heads. So maybe negras should have machines and blancas pegs ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 12:19:15

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

When properly fitted, handled and maintained, pegs won't slip. They may have their minuses (two-handed tuning, 1:1 ratio etc), but for me the pitfalls are greatly overpowered by the pluses (dryer tone, lighter weight, nice traditional look, easier string changes etc).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2009 15:58:05

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

I´m a lucky builder. I normally build 2 - 3 pegheads a year. I´ve just finished 2 and I´m going to start another now.

Pro: feel, lightness, a very nice vibrating guitar. Very flamenco sound.

contras: There´s only one. and it is that its more complicated to tune and thats it. You have to learn how to use pegs and some players just dont get it. And if you dont get it, its not a nice experience. If you get it and you learn how to maintain the pegs in "shape", its not really a big deal

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 1:24:20

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf

This topic has been dealt with before but since the archives are unsearchable my experience:

I own a Devoe Negra that came with pegs because tey looked cool and so flamenco. I absolutely hated them, they slipped (despite peg dope and pencil lead) and I was never in tune, I was always "almost" in tune but never quite bang on. Eventually this bothered me so much that I had Lester switch them out for machines. Surprisingly the tone of the guitar improved after this .... I will never own a peg head, its just not worth the tuning hassle.
Of-course there are others who swear by them and its true that they are a cinch to change strings on ...

Same here. I am yet to see smooth tuning peghead - but I have only tried 3 of them (James Frieson and 2 Ramirezes ) and all 3 had problems with tuning precision and strings were slipping. I like how they look though.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 6:45:41

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

Guitar #1, I used the 'machine' pegs. #2, I chose ebony wood.

And mine tune with one hand. They work - and hold - so well I do not need to grab with both hands. I am now playing a very nice show, and don't have time to fuss with tuning.

My pegs are fast, easy, never slip - if I 'set' them, and it's all one-handed.

I now see so much depends on HOW they were built. I read as much as I could, then thought about it.....and then had an epiphany - which turned out to work.

Can't wait to set the pegs for #3 :-). It's being built for a performing guitarist who's left handed.

If you choose pegs, worst case, you could always convert to the machine pegs - or convert to machines. Difficult to go the other way!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 7:02:27

alaskaal

Posts: 51
Joined: Jan. 10 2005
From: Chugiak, Alaska

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

I got my first peghead in 1971, a Yari blanca. It was the only guitar that I owned until 1986. I now play a DeVoe peghead and love it. Peghead guitars were the only flamenco guitars that I ever played till four years ago when I got a nice cheap Almansa with machines. I guess I have gotten over the difficulty of learning how to tune them because I didn't have anything else. Once tuned, mine stay in tune very well and are quite stable. I really prefer my pegheads to the machines.

I put some peg drops on the Yari here a year or so ago but till then I never used peg dope or anything else on it. Lester put peg dope on the DeVoe before he shipped it, I guess, but I haven't put any on there since - of course it's only been eleven months. Shoot for over thirty years heavy playing, I didn't know there was such a thing as peg dope. I am always overdoing things and I am afraid that if I started smearing peg dope everywhere my peghead would end up looking like a gear box of a '47 Willy's jeep.

Plus, they look really cool.

Al

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 7:11:02

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

quote:

peghead would end up looking like a gear box of a '47 Willy's jeep

that's what I meant with "too much gunk"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 9:42:15

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RTC

Can you please let me know the Pros and Cons of Peg guitars.
I was speaking to a guitar maker and he said few people order them any more.
I personally think they look very traditional, but I want to find out why people do not chose them anymore.

Regards,

Many reasons since most players are afraid of them and don't feel right when the pegs tune faster than machine styles. A player usually ends up pulling the strings into tune or some other trick to get precise tuning rather than just turning the buttons on machine tuners. But the guitar is usually a little dryer sounding with pegs, imo. But I don't make peg guitars unless they are special order, as they are hard to sell to the average person.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2009 15:13:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

The main issue is that if the pegs re well fitted and you are interested in learning how to use and maintain them, they work well.
But, I see many players which have this idea that they cant tune a guitar with pegs. With this attitude you complicate life a lot and it would be better to use machine heads.
I like pegheads myself, I played classical violin for many years with gut strings and so I´m totally used to pegs. I like the feel of a peghead blanca. When I play in noisy environments like an andalucian peña flamenca with 15 - 20 people singing, chatting, playing etc in a small room fuul of tiles (that means noise) I still get along with my peghead, but maybe I would prefer a guitar with high end machine heads. I said high end because normal tuner dont work any better than pegs. (if you know how to use pegs)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2009 1:13:52

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

when you are first learning to play the guitar you have to learn how to tune using tuners just like pegs, but it is more common especially in your cheap first guitar to encounter machine tuners so it is what most of us learnt with. I only started using pegs 2 years ago and after a couple weeks it was no problem at all, and I thought "oh this is simple why did I not get pegs always" So the next guitar I requested I asked for pegs and then I got it and it was not as easy to work with as the other guitar and I realized that all pegheads are not created equally. The one that works better has thinner pegs and to me it is almost like tuners the one that takes longer to get right to fine tune the pegs are larger and the note seems to move too far sharp or flat with even very small turns of the peg. Overall I prefer my pegheads to my machinehead guitars, but I would say you want to get thin pegs and of course better if you can try the guitar first.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2009 6:29:18

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

People fall into two camps on this issue:

Those that had a bad experience the first time they used pegs.

Those that didn't.

The former are usually quite negative about them. Usually because they were trying a friend's guitar, and there are few things more embarrassing than being allowed to try someone else's precious guitar and having a peg slip to zero tension in an instant. It's noisy and startling. The victim wonders if they have damaged it, is embarrassed, and never wants to experience that again.

My first guitar had pegs (at age 10), and I've never gone back. A well-fitted set of pegs is better in ALL regards than machines. Aesthetically, string change speed, weight, and even ease of tuning because you are much more intimately connected to the relation between tension and pitch. And a badly fitted set is an absolute total pain. Big difference. Causes deep divide in opinions.

Machines? the functional difference between the very best and the very worst is negligible compared to the huge difference between well-fitted and poorly-fitted pegs. And even the cheapest set of machines is functionally better than poorly fitted pegs. Another big difference.

The poor fit comes from using peg wood and neck stock that aren't well seasoned. Both (if inadequately seasoned) shrink in one direction perpendicular to the grain, and both hole and peg become oval, causing sticking and slipping while turning. If only one or the other is oval, you don't notice it, but when both go oval, it is awful.

Getting new pegs fitted is an easy job for a luthier. Changing from pegs to machines is easy. Going the other way never looks right afterward.

My advice: If you like the guitar, buy it whether the pegs work well or not -- it's an easy fix.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2009 15:51:15

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

so what is proper peg maintenance?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2009 18:47:56

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

Maintenance depends on the instrument; some need a dab of lube or dope once or twice in a lifetime while others need practically nothing, except for perhaps peg replacement and re-bushing of the pegholes after many years of hard wear (and even then this isn't needed for every old guitar). Other than that, it boils down to keeping a slight inward pressure when turning to ensure the pegs don't slip and have a string go totally slack on you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2009 10:44:54

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

As a violin player for many years, there was only one choice for my guitar - pegs!I'm a relative newby to Flamenco guitar playing brought about by a motorbike accident a few years back. I've made plenty of violins and have just finished my first guitar - a construction project using PLYWOOD for the back and sides and a good soundboard for the front.
PEGS - were a piece of cake to fit. Part of the problem that people experience is that they are made too THICK and so are difficult to tune. Even my teacher advised me to use violin pegs for a viola! On my guitar, I used viola pegs and fluted the ends to make the diameter even smaller. Provided you fit them using a matched peg shaper and reamer, problems will be limited. There is also something called "Hiderpaste"? - that you can dab on there.
Lets face it - once upon a time there was no choice. It was pegs or leave it!
Having said that - each to his/her own and dont do something if you dont get on with it.
Cheers people.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2009 9:35:23

DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: Peg Guitars (Pros & Cons) (in reply to RTC)

Pegs are nice and IMO flamenco guitars with pegs do sound very flamenco however if you perform a lot I would take a machine head (with premium tuners) over pegs 9 out of 10 times. I've had 3-4 pegheads in the past (DeVoe, Ramirez etc) and eventually felt comfortable using them but then you go back to machines and realize its much easier. Flamenco guitar is hard enough to play on stage so having the problem of tuning and adjusting, pulling on strings etc I found out is just not practical to me...if I practice at home its a different story.
I think the best examples are the top players...who else plays pegheads nowadays?just my 2 cents.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2009 9:50:49