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RE: 2s in bulerias examples
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: 2s in bulerias examples (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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quote:
Compas beat 5, just seems so natural. If you're feeling two's the whole time, how do you know were to stop? Jim, Because tapping 2's is not the whole story, by any means. Above that, you have the whole Traditional structure of Bulerias on top of that. Tapping 2's without knowing the 12's structure...we'll you might as well be playing "Seargent Pepper". 2's are just 2's What Estela is saying is that although the 3's or the 3,6.8,10,12 structure of Bulerias is immediately apparent, it is actually underpinned by a 2's beat. I would have to agree with her here. Of course 2's is just a beat... Compás is Compás... But, it's no good having technical compás without rhythm. And amongst Flamencos in Andalucia "Compás" and "Rhythm" is the same word. Can you see what I'm trying to get at here? cheers Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 8 2004 21:10:54
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: 2s in bulerias examples (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
I feel that if this was THE fundamental compas of bulerias then someone in the last half century would have done palmas with it. Andy, I think you are still seeing 2's as something that should shout out at you, be emphasised, played palmas to etc. That would be totally and utterly boring and would completely render the delight of Flamenco music to the "Oompa" Bands of Europe. What makes Flamenco so unusual and exciting, is this taking every opportunity to emphasise the "off" beats. That is not to say, even if they don't sound it out, that it's not the fundamental beat they have going on inside themselves? Just like my post about the Samba artists in Brasil. Or maybe they are counting 3,6,8,10,12 on one compás and 3,78,10,12 on the next. Then counting 6's. Then counting two 18 beat falsetas Then back to counting 12's And just counting it all out in their heads? The Singers, the Dancers and the Guitarists.... And of course, the audience! Maybe they worked it all out beforehand? You see what I'm trying to say Andy? There is bags of evidence to show that Estela's "binding 2's" may very likely be the case. From Tomatito, all the way through to Diego Amaya, and the countless audiences (in Spain, not America) who naturally pick up on this beat. Who knows? But it sounds very plausable to me! cheers Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 8 2004 21:42:40
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zata
Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
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RE: 2s in bulerias examples (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
haven't you been reading this thread? The point is that zata thinks that bulerias is actually in two's. The accented 3 is actually felt as a syncopation from this. No, bulerías is not "in" twos, twos are in bulerías. They overlay all the rest in order to make compás. For example, in standard old-style bulerías compás (as opposed to Ricardo's 12s): 1 2 (3) 4 5 (6) The above is a graphic representation of the compás, but the 2 and 4 dominate only because the handclap (footbeat, falseta) accents those beats, PLUS they are overlaid by twos. Otherwise beats 1, 2, 4 and 5 have equal imporance and you don't know where the compás is...in effect, without the overlay of twos, you have a module of three beats instead of six, but bulerías with loose threes is extremely rare. What I mean is 1-2 (3) is exactly the same as 4-5 (6), but 1-2 (3) is not the same as 4-5 (6) so a unit of six beats is created. Estela 'Zata'
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 9 2004 0:50:12
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